How get over it`

How get over it`?

This is a post from Oroborus Forum that was about starting over and the Synchronicity that happened with the daisies and with those that had come to know the Spirit through DNATREE. To find the synch you can search for dnatree posts in this thread but several of the other posts were very synchronous as well.

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shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: How get over it`?

Hello. I am in a very sad state of mind. Recently I broke up with a man and moved out. He was too interested in other women and lied to me a lot.... mostly about this and moneymatters, I think. He is not a nice person. Has never been Has a lot of emotional stuff inside from childhood... Could need therapy but I think he doesnt have the guts to do it. It hurt to much... Despite all this I fell for the guy....I trusted him. I dont love him....But I have a hard time get over it! I know it sounds crazy. But there is so many questions in my mind... Why did he have to contact other women? Why wasnt I enough? Why did he lie to me about everything? Why cant I let go? I dont se him anymore. Dont talk to him. Dont want to have any contact at all. But I do want to heal and move on. Please somebody give me some advice. And maybe som answers.. Im feeling so sad.... Shellsie

sakeringo

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2907

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject:

You can get over it and you will. Why weren't you enough for him? The question really is why do you for one moment blame yourself because he is a dishonorable man who behaved badly? That's on him, not you. Why do men play around like that? Because they can. When women refuse to tolerate infidelity and kick it to the curb the first time, when women refuse to sleep with men who are already involved with another woman for ANY reason at all, then maybe that will change. Because there were women out there willing to sleep with him is why he played around. Because he could. And because HE is a pig. Put the responsibility for that on him, not you. Why did he lie so much? Because that is who he is and because he thinks he can get away with it. And because HE is a pig. You are understanding and compassionate regarding his emotional scars. That's what we women do. We make excuses for men's callous behavior toward us. Do you think for one moment he has any compassion or understanding for your emotional scars from YOUR childhood? You must have at least ONE. Most people do not emerge from childhood unscathed. However, that is no excuse for being a cad, and a pig. Poor him, he had a sad childhood. Bullsh!t. Plain and simple. Here's how you will heal. You will think very hard about yourself until you realize that you are beautiful and special and more than enough for any GOOD man in this world, deserving of only the best in this life, especially when it comes to a relationship. You will love yourself enough to never allow another cad to use you in the shabby way this man did. Because you deserve to be treated like the beautiful woman you are. You will seek joy in every single day until there is no more room for the pain you are feeling now. Until you get him out of your system, you will throw rocks which represent him into bodies of water as a symbol of your letting him go once and for all. Time and determination to be happy will heal you. If you like to read, please read "He's Just Not That Into You" or anything by Wayne Dyer. And you will heal and release him when you realize that you do not NEED a man in your life at all, but that you are a complete spendid woman all on your own who can fulfill every need you have in your life all by yourself if necessary. When you are so busy going about living a full and happy life, you will attract a healthy man to you if that is what you want. But it will because you want such a man, not because you need a man. Any man. Take back your self respect. Take back your power and never give it away again. Learn to see red flags. Assume that a man who is not nice will not ever be nice. If it looks like a crocodile it IS a crocodile, not a pussy cat. And you have no power to change another human being. If he needs to be changed in any way in your eyes, that is a red flag. He is not for you. Walk away immediately. Never again volunteer for a broken heart. Because you deserve better.

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: Thank you so much...

...for your encouraging word. Though I know that its him to blame....I become the victim...He is the one who done wrong.... But I still dont get it. And probably I never will understand what happened. In the beginning there were many red flags...which I ignored....Dont get that either... I am so glad that his out of my life... but not out of my mind....and I dont want him on my mind. I will never forgive him for beeing such a pig... You are so right. Of course I have to look up. And se myself. There is of course a deeper meaning to why I let this man maipulate me. I had to learn the hard way. It hurts but its nice to have some chat here and get so positive energy back at me. Thanks and all good to you. Shellsie

dnatree

Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 487

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Though I know that its him to blame

How close You are to finding Your life

http://stephentree.com/veil.htm
_________________
Your moments in wonder, reveal the true intentions of the heart. The smallest of points overlooked changes entirely everything and renders all interpretations meaningless.

sakeringo

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2907

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject:

Well, Shel, I think just drop the whole blame thing. It might be healthier to simply take responsibility WITHOUT GUILT for the fact that you ignored the red flags, and take that lesson away with you. You know, we do the best we know how at the time and that's how we learn. All men are not like him. He's who he is. He's not for you. It doesn't make him evil or anything. He's just a jerk living on a very low level of existence at the bottom of the pond where all the scum is. When he's 70 and no woman will look at him twice let alone screw him, he'll turn around and say what the? And STILL not get it. Maybe he'll be lucky and wise up and not waste an entire lifetime using people and tossing them aside so heartlessly like broken dolls. You know what? Not your problem. His. But there really are men out there who are good and kind and loving and their flags are green. Just hold out for one of those. Be that for yourself and you will attract one of those. Chalk it up to experience. Lesson learned. At the first red flag, do not go rationalizing things or thinking your love will heal his wounds. Screw that. Stop it in its tracks. Wish the bugger well and move on. Look, you said this was recently. It takes time. Some cherished misconceptions you had have been ripped asunder. Be patient. No need for any guilt on your part. No need for blame. Just need for release and thank God you got away from him before you spent 30 years being treated like crap. Best way to release him is to stop focusing on him and focus on you. Get selfish. You've earned it.

l'eau

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 1157

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject:

Quote:

but not out of my mind....and I dont want him on my mind.
I will never forgive him for beeing such a pig

But that's just the point, Shellsie - if you want him out of your mind, you have to forgive him.

Harboring a resentment is a way of giving a person rent-free space in your mind. It's a way of giving them control of your time and energy and life, while they happily go on living life freely.

Forgive. It means to let go. Release. So you can get on with your life.

(I know - not always easy - but it can be done)

wishing you the best,
l'eau

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject:

Hi all. Sakeringo: You are so wise... I will print all you said and put it on my toiletmirrow so I'll be remided every day until I GET IT!!! Thanks for your support. It feels good. I know that all of you have your own story of broken hearts, thats why you know what I'm going through... Yeah....forgive and forget... and move on. I have to find it in myself to forgive that man. And youre so on the spot l'eau, as long as I dont forgive I just carry him with me.... OOOh so sad. I really dont want to do that rest of my life. But maybe I have to forgive myself for letting him manipulate and use me to fulfill his own emotional needs....for trusting him...thats harder.... Blessings Shell

LearningToFly
Moderator

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 1065

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject:

After you look at those things in your mirror, close your eyes and say (out loud): "Thank you (person's name) for the lessons you taught me about trust and love. I will never forget those lessons, and I sincerely appreciate your teaching them to me. Now that I have learned those lessons, with a full heart and unconditional love I release you from your contract to teach me. Go in peace, and may you find what you seek." _________________ Align yourself with those who seek the truth, and avoid those who have found it. - Vaclav Havel

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:17 pm Post subject:

Thank YOU, Learning to fly, for sharing your thoughts. I will follow your advice and do that. Tomorrow morning. So I can be free of all negative energy for this man. And hopefully I can move on with my life.... With more light in my mind.... Shell

dnatree

Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 487

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject:

If you wait
Tommorrow Morning
Something Fresh will invite You to begin a new day!!

http://www.stephentree.com/snow/

http://oroborusforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=65316#65316

Quote:

Like in the film "Peaceful Warrior the story does not end at a broken heart,,, it begins there. I think the most important part of focusing the heart is a broken heart. I believe when we ask for our life to come often we recieve what we believe is the opposite. In time we come to understand the "true intention of the heart."

_________________
Your moments in wonder, reveal the true intentions of the heart. The smallest of points overlooked changes entirely everything and renders all interpretations meaningless.

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:34 am Post subject:

Hi all. dnatree: Thank you. But, you see, I'm not a very romantic or poetic person. I'm very logical and like to have an objective perspective... Of course I have feelings but its more of a fire inside me.... When I'm in love. I really could use some of that poetry, though, but it just dont get to me. I want to understand reality. Thats a need I have. I try to understand everything. Even people. Thats why I cant let it go. Because I probably never can understand this person and why he did as he did to me. And thats probably why I stayed with him. I wanted so much to understand. To get the whole picture... But I did say outloud in my bathroom this morning Learning To Fly suggestion and it feels a bit better. But I still wonder....trying to understand.... Thats why I asked my question at this forum. I thought maybe I get some answers so I can understand and move on.. Maybe I being silly.. I dont know. Im very thankful for your replyes. Your support make me a bit stronger. Shellsie

l'eau

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 1157

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:57 am Post subject:

Perhaps you are trying to understand it with your mind, and the mind tends to be a dual thing that is always seeking right-wrong, black-white, win-lose, etc. Blaise Pascal said, "The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing." The heart is the higher intelligence, the higher mind. Your own poetry is in there, no need to strain your reasoning trying to grasp others' poetry until you get in touch with your own. love, l'eau

sakeringo

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2907

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject:

I am happy to help any way I can. I'm sure it's not the first time my words have ended up in somebody's toilet. You are NOT being silly. You are being human, and you are reacting exactly as practically every woman on the planet reacts when faced with this challenge. Here's the deal. Go back and read what DNA said another couple three times, because it's very important and as real as it gets. Love those daisies. They just make me smile. You'll be fine. Sometimes the understanding we cannot grasp at the moment comes later on in life. Just trust. You don't really have to understand right this minute. One day when you look back you'll understand. This whole forgiving thing is so very important. It's giving FOR something better. Releasing - giving something up. Yes, forgive both him and yourself. You do this for you, and it in no way excuses anything that went down. But it does release it so that you can heal. And then, as DNA said, the broken heart is the BEGINNING of something instead of the end.

deerscribe

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 853
Location: Florida

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject:

shellsie wrote:

I want to understand reality. Thats a need I have.
I try to understand everything. Even people. Thats why I cant let it go. Because I probably never can understand this person and why he did as he did to me. And thats probably why I stayed with him. I wanted so much to understand. To get the whole picture...

Hi Shellsie. Some Native American tribes call God the "Great Mystery" because there are just some things we don't understand, and have to accept on faith. I know what you're saying, I was one of those kids that went around saying "Why?" "Why?" all the time. I still do.

Your situation, and the strong pull you felt towards this man though you knew there were red flags, makes me think it may have been a karmic relationship. Maybe you came together to resolve unfinished business from a past life. All the more reason to forgive in this life, so you don't keep running into him in future lives. Bless him and release him, and trust that there may be some things you just won't get the answers to, but have faith that it's for the highest and best good of all involved. I'm still hoping to meet God face to face someday, cuz I've got a lot of "Why?" questions for him/her.

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject:

Hello deerscribe. Nice to meet you. Yeah, WHY is definitly a word I use a lot too... Its so hard for me to let go and accept that I wont get any answers to my questions. And understand my situation. And why this man did what he did? But you are of course right. There are things in life we cant understand and probably shouldnt either. You are definitly on to something. It really feels like a karmic relationship. I couldnt say no to him though I really wantet to say "Get lost" I was very reluctatant to meet him at first. He didnt attract me at all. But he was very persistant and phoned me all the time... He is 9 years older and dont have the Looks, no money, just a lot of debts from earlier buisenessventures, I'm talking about over $ 100 000 at the IRS here in Sweden, 4 kids to provide for and so on... Hes definitly not a catch for any woman if you understand what I mean... But in time I sort of grew into him or HE grew onto me And despite I knew he isnt a nice person and had treated his former girlfriends badly I started to like him. I think I even was in love with him at one point in the relationship. Still he didnt appreciate me....I did a lot for him and his kids, you know. Treated them as my own. Some real deep manipulation went on... and I was totally manipulated by him. SO crazy. It makes me wonder too, what kind of former lives we have lived together and what kind of unfinished buiseness there is/was? I really dont want any unfinished buisiness with this man so I have to deal with him again. So I do everything to avoid that in the future... Thanks for your concern and advice. It makes me more stronger for every minute. Shellsie

sakeringo

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2907

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject:

Shellsie - WHY is because he is a jerk. That's it. That simple. No need for heavy analysis here. He's a user and an abuser and that is WHY. You are no longer a volunteer to be a victim. That's all that matters now. Next time you run into a guy who has a history of hurting women, turn around and walk the other way. That's the lesson. Apparently you needed, for karmic reasons or whatever reasons to learn that lesson. And that is also WHY. That is what you need to understand. You hoped you would be different? Your love would change him? It wasn't him it was them? That's called codependency. Resolve never to go there again. It's not healthy.

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:41 pm Post subject:

Dear sakeringo I just have to laugh reeding your post. You have a lot of humor, dont you...? Its nice to have a laugh about the misery. Have been too sad too long.. YES I was codependent. I can see it now. YES I hoped my love could make him love me and treat me kind... Yes, I thought I was different...that he would change for me... YES he is a jerk and I let him but now I let him go. I promise I aint going to dwell no more... Its his loss... Thats it! Thank you all for making my day a lot easier and a turning point in my life and to you sakeringo, my best wishes, Bless you. Your words will follow me for a long time....not just to the bathroom... Love to you all Shellsie

deerscribe

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 853
Location: Florida

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject:

There is a book, Radical Forgiveness, that helps to see the Big Picture so that you can see, like Sake was saying, that on a soul level this man was teaching you important lessons. This theory has helped me much, because I have a hard time believing that someone who truly loved me could hurt me so deeply. But when I accept that he/they are players in a larger picture and these experiences have been for my soul's growth, suddenly forgiveness comes easily. On a higher level, this person loved me enough to do this for me so that my soul could evolve.

Quote:

Radical Forgiveness Theory

from the book, "Radical Forgiveness, Making Room for the Miracle", by Colin Tipping.

Ordinary forgiveness is letting bygones be bygones - letting go of the past while still holding onto the idea that something wrong or bad happened. That often seems like a difficult task and it usually takes a very long time before we begin to feel the forgiveness.

Radical Forgiveness is also a deep commitment to releasing the past. However, the release is more total since it involves a shift in perception that allows us to see that what happened was actually perfect from a spiritual point of view. It is experienced as a profound insight and can occur in an instant.

Radical Forgiveness enables us to see the spiritual meaning in any situation; the big picture, so to speak. We are able to recognize that life is divinely guided and unfolding for each of us exactly how it needs to unfold for our highest good. We are able to surrender to the flow of life and to learn that, ultimately, there is nothing to forgive.

When we receive this insight, we can let go of being a victim and find peace, even in the most unpleasant of situations or memories of what happened. And, when we see that, at the soul level, our perceived enemies really love us and are giving us an opportunity to heal and to grow, our hearts open and we are able to come back into alignment.

http://www.iloveulove.com/forgiveness/rftheophilo.htm

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:48 pm Post subject:

Thank you so much deerscribe. So very insightful. I truly want to forgive. Myself and this man. Thank you for the link. Just what I needed... I will read it every day...til i stucks with me. Of course I choose this man, on another level of beeing, to learn me something about myself in this lifetime. Deep down I know that, but it's so easy to forget... He lerned me to stand up for myself. Not to be a volonter victim (as sakeringo so excellent put it) He learned me thats important to take care of myself and not let anybody hurt me. To have the strenght to walk out of an emotioanlly abusive relationship. He learned me to take my self seriously. I count. If he just knew how much he tought me by beeing a jerk! And now I'm learning a lot here. Yuu, gyus remind me of who I am. And whats important in life. Many thanks again. Shellsie

June

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 3438

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject:

Shellsie, Some people prey on other people, and you were only of use to him so long as you would serve his needs. It is hard for people who love deeply to understand, but some people do not have the capacity to do that, maybe not at that point in their life, maybe never. He just sees people as a means to an end, to get what he wants, there is no real caring going on there. You probably met him because it forced you/is forcing you to deal with something about yourself, other people just mirror our own condition to us. Try asking yourself "I" questions instead of "him" questions. What lessons did I learn from this? What do I realize now that I didn't realize before? How have I grown from this? What can I do to love myself more so I will never allow myself to stay in such a position again? IMHO, that kind of analysis is much more useful. Hope that helps, June

June

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 3438

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject:

deerscribe wrote:

When we receive this insight, we can let go of being a victim and find peace, even in the most unpleasant of situations or memories of what happened. And, when we see that, at the soul level, our perceived enemies really love us and are giving us an opportunity to heal and to grow, our hearts open and we are able to come back into alignment.

http://www.iloveulove.com/forgiveness/rftheophilo.htm

That is excellent deerscribe.

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject:

Hello June. Nice to meet you too. Well, I think you are on the spot. I have to think more "I" than "He". I know. And you, gyus help a lot. But I feel so deceived. He really fooled me. He pretended that he cared for me. While meeting other women on the side. Its just so not what I expected of him. I know I'm not alone. Many women have been deceived. Now I know how they feel... And there is a purpose... Iknow. I just hope he gets what he deserves... Cant help thinking that... But if there is a universal law... Best Shell

June

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 3438

Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject:

Well, get your anger out, then move on, he is not worth it. The "I" questions will take you to a better place, and that can make you glad of the experience because of the growth. Not that it erases what he did, but more that you will be able to look back and say, look how much I grew from that experience, instead of look what he did. You will get there, don't worry. You can't help the others, you knew of others and it didn't stop you.

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:48 am Post subject:

Hello June. Yeah I knew about the other girlfriends he had and he willingly admitted to me that he wasnt nice to them. He said that he didnt cared about them at all, while thy were living together. He did his own thing. Still I stayed with him... Knowing that.... He told me he was totaly monogomus. Couldnt look at anybody ells while in realtionship with a woman....weird, I know. AND I belived him! Thats wierder... You are rigt. I feel very angry towards him for letting me trust him...And then behaving like a jerk... And for that he used me for his own satisfaction... Thats worse. I an very glad ist over, but its hard to get over it. I dont want him back... So It shouldnt be..... Still I feel kind of sad... I hope that I will look back and think about it as a strenghtening experience. I really hope so. But no I'm not that strong. Blessings Shellsie

sakeringo

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2907

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:09 am Post subject:

Shell, what June said is very important. Stop saying "he". Drop the word. It's not about him and what he did anymore. It's about you. Begin to affirm the cliches - I am strong, I am invincible. I am nobody's fool. I am happy. I am smart. I am discerning. When you only say "I" is when you will heal. You are still saying "he he he he he" - see?

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shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject:

Yes I see! I'm still looking for some answers, I think. Sorry gyus, I know I'm focusing wrong. I'm trying though to think "I". Really. And I'm getting there, enventually. I know you want to help me and I'm very greatful for that. I read this thread a lot to strenghten myself. Blessings Shellsie

June

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 3439

Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject:

shellsie wrote:

Yeah I knew about the other girlfriends he had and he willingly admitted to me that he wasnt nice to them. He said that he didnt cared about them at all, while thy were living together. He did his own thing.
Still I stayed with him... Knowing that....

He told me he was totaly monogomus. Couldnt look at anybody ells while in realtionship with a woman....weird, I know. AND I belived him! Thats wierder...

That is the part you have to work on. Look at what you just said.

First he told you he lived with this other women but he didn't love them and treated them like crap. My question is, why wasn't that a huge red flag for you? I guess you could give him credit for being honest, but I also think he didn't want your expectations to be too high for the relationship.

You were just another woman he didn't love and treated like crap, what does it matter if he cheats or not? Why do you even want to be with him at all? It might hurt to hear that, but it is the truth. Love does not treat another human being that way, period. That can be a lot of other things, control issues, power trip, maybe some lust that flared up then faded away, crap from his or your childhood, but that is not love.

You want to think you are different, that you were the one he really loved, but I think you already know in your heart the answer to that is no.

If you look at it on a purely spiritual level, perhaps you can think it is teaching you to love yourself. Now you will value yourself more, and hopefully you will not settle for something so, frankly, lacking, as you did that time.

You want to believe that at some point, he really loved you, but I can't tell you that.

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:32 am Post subject:

Hello again June. Thank you for your concern. You, know. A part of me really do understand all that you say, gyus. And I totally agree. Reallly. That part knows for shore I had to learn a lesson by having a relationship with this man.... And you are SO right about everything you say. All of it. And the lesson is to learn to love myself. to value myself. And to care about myself enough that I dont end up in abusive relationships anymoore - Which by the way - I allways have....In some way. But I have allways manage to free myself...to walk away... This one was different in that way. I wanted so much to be loved, to be taken care of, to feel that special bonding.... That never really was there... I know all that... Still...another part of me feels hurt....and trying to understand how a man can be so selfish and lacking emotions for another... Shellsie

Signe

Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 963

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject:

A study has been released citing the 237 reasons people have sex. Though many news articles are downplaying the differences between the genders, men and women do have different reasons for having sex, and if one reads the study in its entirety, one can see that. Mind you, the study was of college age people and does not represent the whole population. Men have sex sometimes just to score, just to have another feather in their cap, because they like the physical appearance of the woman, because they want more sexual practice. Women often have sex to feel love and closer to an man, sometimes because of a job. When you accept that men can be more cold and callous than you can imagine or ever want to be, then you will understand that you should not wear your heart on your sleeve. Understand that men like that don't even care one whit about you and it's very easy for them. They understand very well how to control you through your own weakness and vulnerability to their wiles. Let me repeat, they use your weakness against you. And they talk to their buddies about it and laugh at you. Women are thought of as always as the Weaker Vessel. Not all men are that way, but at my age anyway, a lot of the good ones are taken and those women hang onto them for good reason. So if you find a good one, cherish him and treat him very well. My advice is quit dwelling on this guy and all the other assholes before him. Focus on what you DO want in a companion. Focus on developing your own sense of self so you don't rely on another to make you complete. Stand on your own two feet, then you have something to offer another. And once you gain that ground within yourself, don't give it away. That is giving away your own power. Hold your ground. It is your ground, hardwon ground. Respect yourself and accept the reality that everyone has their own perspective and set of values, and they may not match yours. Hold your ground and don't give away your power. The more you bring up the topic of this guy, the more you are giving away your power. thank you shellsie, for giving me the opportunity to write this, because as I wrote, I learned too, and cemented some things within my self. Blessings to you. Be strong. _________________ World is crazier and more of it than we think, Incorrigibly plural. I peel and portion A tangerine and spit the pips and feel The drunkenness of things being various.

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject:

Nice to meet you Signe. Interesting reeding....make a lot of sense.... Yes I will learn to hold my ground. I know. But there is a reason to why I have attracted all those men....who never really cared for me. And that reason becoming more clear every day for me. If you were treated like crap from early childhood by those nearest to you, who supposed to love you but never did, of course you learn that you are not worth more than a peanut... And there is a reson for that too. I belive I choosed my life and parents and the lessons it holds. And I had to learn the hard way to find a worth in myself. To allways stand alone and stand up for myself and not fall into despair, drugs, alcohol or other escape from the harsch reality. And I havent let myself escape. though it was very temptening in my early teens up to 30 years. I did drink a lot of alcohol and hanged with people who did drugs. But now I dont even drink alcohol at all. I did attract this last man I think , because its the finally lesson to show myself that I can stand up for myself. But it is hard and I'm still struggeling within. Not that I want to go back to him. I would never do that. I know better. Im healing. But it takes time. And Im greatful for your support. It helps a lot. I'm not feeling alone. Love Shellsie

sakeringo

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2907

Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:23 pm Post subject:

Stop expecting someone outside yourself to complete you. And do yourself a favor and stop analyzing this to death. Take responsibility for your mistakes AND for your lessons. It absolutely does not matter what happened to you in your past. This is now. These are choices you are making about your life now. Stop making excuses by blaming anyone or any circumstance period. Take responsibility for your own happiness and your own completion and the quality of your life. No man is going to love you the way you want to be loved if you do not love yourself first, and that means having self respect. You can take twins with the exact same parents, surroundings, environment, and upbringing and put this man in front of them and one will pick him and the other will not. One will blame the past for how she feels about herself and the other will not. This is about you. Attracting creeps? You have been choosing creeps. That is not about them. It is about you. You could line up 10 young women in front of my ex husband back when I chose him and I would be the ONLY one of the 10 who would choose him. That is not about HIM but ME. LET HIM GO. You found out the sugar is really rat poison. So will you continue to drink the coffee? Check this out. He has absolutely NO problem letting you go or walking away from you. So why do you? Do you think he is spending one minute of his life asking why? STOP IT!

dnatree

Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 487

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject:

Even when you find that that person did not love You it is hard to let go. Where do You put the love? When I experienced this and loosing the kids too through betrayal the pain was so difficult because WHERE DO YOU GIVE THE LOVE THAT YOU HAVE IN YOU? And the things that were coming how could You deal with all of it alone? My whole life I had another relationship within me that I refferred to as YOU, my life. During the years of crying and aloneness I spoke to YOU, the synchronicities were Your way of speaking back. The flowers along the path, were from YOU. YOU said never to think anything below the joy line because YOU don't. And even though my boat was sinking I listened only to YOU. Even though my former life had made so many loose ends I was told I had to address by others YOU said to pay attention to the things that were coming through that broken heart. Sure enough, the flowers had something to teach me for as the flowers do nothing yet it comes to them so the fragrance of the heart draws what we truly need if we do not fill the cup ourselves with a bandaid. I really appreciate those here that have GROWN to know YOU in their own way for they have grown to know more of the True intentions of the heart. A heartbreak is a new birth in the Spirit, because Your heart is more open and understanding what those who went before us have suffered in reaching to know and be known. About the inferences to sex. Sex teaches so much that the sayings about men and women and sex do not address. Subtle inferences that take us beyond the veil with the other in such a way that we learn without words. When we traven in Synchronciity (love making) with another, we are experiencing the ONE. Such as when I make love to You, I am with YOU, my life. I see YOU in them. That is where I learned the power of heart, attraction, and how the universe works was written then on my heart. My moments in wonder after loosing that special one (one is taken and another left) gave me then the words to articulate what was happening. Forget the words that the world wants You to believe about gender, about God. Let go of the veil of interpretation that You might see ME, Your life. Broken heart synchs http://stephentree.com/snow/ PS. Many here have gone (and are still ) on a wild ride with Spirit in order that they might understand what words cannot say. Much of that understanding is reflected in this thread. (Sometimes the understanding of others can bring You to tears. Love You All! The interaction here is also changing me as I come to better know You/YOU.) Frogs and forgiveness http://www.stephentree.com/frogs/ Leaving the Struggle of the worlds interpretation and of relationship http://www.stephentree.com/struggle/ _________________ Your moments in wonder, reveal the true intentions of the heart. The smallest of points overlooked changes entirely everything and renders all interpretations meaningless.

Signe

Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 963

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Forget the words that the world wants You to believe about gender, about God.

hmm, sounds nice, but then we have to live in the world with others and their ideas until we don't anymore.

That's a really good idea to find a way to grow spiritually through a broken heart. A person has a choice: to become bitter and depressed and cynical, or forgive, move on, and become a more complete, whole loving person who's learned some hard lessons and established some really good boundaries and has a better idea of what they DO want in their life.

My guess is you don't conduct yourself like a fraternity brother out in the world dna, but there are all too many who do.

Here's a sync I had with what you wrote from an article by Jonathan Zap Buzz posted in Science and Health:

Quote:

Let’s say we have an adolescent male who has many good, compassionate qualities. He forms an attachment to an adolescent girl and there is a genuine bond, he truly cares for her. The adolescent is genuinely traumatized and extremely vulnerable when he discovers that, in typical high school fashion, the girlfriend has cheated on him. He goes to his best friend for sympathetic council and his friend utters a single definitive sentence, “That’s just the way they are, so fuck ‘em and forget ‘em!” In the painful confusion of adolescent eros a single sentence like this, from the right person and at the right moment, could be potently influential, could seem like an empowered antidote to the pain and confusion. If the adolescent male adopts this soul-destroying mind parasite, transmitted in a single sentence meme, he may then spend a lifetime infecting others with the contagion.

I would say that there is a definite prevalence of this attitude among men, historically and today, though things seem to be getting better gradually. I don't, however, believe that hating men in return heals the situation. Rather, strong boundaries need to be drawn by women, and women and men both would be well-served to find the balance of masculine and feminine within themselves to become complete.

To share another sync from your comments, from Gospel of Thomas:

Quote:

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom."

They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?"

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

_________________
World is crazier and more of it than we think,
Incorrigibly plural. I peel and portion
A tangerine and spit the pips and feel
The drunkenness of things being various.

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject:

dnatree: Oh My God!!!! This is exactly how I feel. "Where do I put my love?" I realised that I feel love despite the man is not worth it. I feel love anyway. I feel very alive! I can feel love! That a good thing. BUT were do I direct it? To my son? To our cat? Yes I did that. But its not enough. Lately I have come to this insight that I CAN love somebody. I think I never have loved before in my life. I thought I had, but I havent. Now I know I can. I am not in love with this man. Probably never were. I wanted him to love me, to be honest with you. Well, I sure thought he did love me! But something grew in me during the relationship. At first he didnt attract me at all. After a year I started to see him and found him kind of cute. AND attractive. But I was not happy with him. We just were not compatible, I think. Now, thanks to your words, dnatree, I just have dicovered that through him I learned I truly can feel love for another person. That love comes through time. He triggered this in me. But were do I put all these feelings ? Thank you dnatree. It takes one to know one... I have to read your text a couple of times until I get it, my english you know...but I definitly got that message! shellsie

River

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 1211

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: Eros...deepening..

Well I would love the world..the trees, the kids, the elderly..Let the love..which I think of as the god ..EROS.. transfrom you...deepening your capacity to feel..to be intimate..to be present with..to hold..to contain...to hold life..etc..The precious gift of life which deserves to be held..tenderly River

River

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 1211

Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: what is the work of love?

This is a post I made in DNA section that I am copy/paste here River There are many kinds of love, here we just always say love..for everything..all kinds...when I think of Romantic love...I think of Eros..in the Greek mythology...I don't know how to say what I want to say about it to make it understandable...but when my love for you...became..not just my love for you but a visitation by a God..meaning Eros..when really it was him visiting me..then love became not something that I owned..or was..or had..?? It became this God..power force...like a fate..visiting me..making me happy or sad..depending..then it all changed..and I got a bit of freedom from it...or it became less overwhelming for good or bad..because in some ways..it had nothing to do with me...it was a visitation by a God..messing in my life..what was he trying to show me?.do?..awaken the heart..yes, and then it became another matter all together, not just personal..but something we submit to and learn from...as just part of Life..of being a human..and strangely..submitting to..in a sense of knowing it was a God..not submitting to as in just acting out...but psychologically submitting to, acknowledging his power, his realm...then I got some space from it..a little free...you know? And even pain would be welcomed for the awakening and sensitizing it would bring.. (adding this)..when we realize the work it is doing. I mean I literally think of it has a power..god..forces..beyond the ego... River

sakeringo

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2907

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject:

Put that love OUT there! Love yourself - you can never give enough love to your son - love that cat - love the earth - love the homeless, the needy, the sorrowful, the grieving. Love LIFE! Don't be saving all that love just for one person - the more you love the more love grows! The more you love the more you draw love back to you! If you want to be loved, then love. And that is the gift he gave you - the realization that the love you seek is already within YOU!

Gollum

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 378

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject:

Hi, Shellsie, If I might stick my big, fat male nose into all this allow me to make a few observations. It's very easy to point out motivations others have based upon our own psychological makeup, thus misinterpretation is always a possibility. It isn't always the male who breaks the female's heart. Women do it as well, perhaps not even realizing what they've done. I once fell in love with a young woman who only wanted me as a 'boy-toy.' I was never in the running for her hand in marriage, but couldn't make myself wake up . . . until the day I couldn't act 'cool' anymore and I told her how serious I was. Well, that was the last day of our relationship. I spent two long years trying to get over her. It seems her wealthy upper-east-side father would not allow her to become engaged to a . . . what term can I use here to not give away ethnicities? . . . Southwestern Wasp type. She wasn't a 'jerk.' She was just playing the field before she had to marry someone of her family's choosing. Also, I shouldn't have to point out that males of our species (and most others) are genetically driven to 'mount' as many females in the herd as possible. It isn't usually a considered matter from the pre-frontal cortex. Being aware of one's own unconscious drives doesn't make one a 'jerk.' While the mind has its own set of rules, the heart desires what the heart desires, and the mating urge posits itself on many fronts. However much females want to remake males as they'd like them, guys are going to be guys and behave as such . . . me included. Yes, I did eventually settle down and became a faithful husband, but not before I'd fertilized far more than my share of females in the herd. True love is something that hits a guy like an iron baseball bat and he doesn't recover. If a woman isn't the right one, it isn't going to 'take' no matter what. So, consider yourself lucky and join the crowd of all of us who've had our hearts broken for reasons we may not be aware of. The sermon is over. Regards

June

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 3439

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject:

Gollum, Did you read the whole topic where the guy cheated on her, lied to her and also told her he lived with women in the past he did not love and treated them like crap? I don't see how anybody here is making a judgment call. June

Gollum

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 378

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject:

June, Laying more than one woman is 'cheating'? In New York City during the 60s and 70s? When a direct glance would get a guy layed in a heartbeat by most of the women in the bar? Living with someone you're not in love with is . . . what, moral turpitude? When all the woman you're living with wants is a good daily screwing (at the very least)? Where are all those pedestals for all those morally superior females? If so, then get out the rocks, 'cause I need a good stoning . . . or maybe Ocean and Sake need to spank me again.

June

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 3439

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject:

If a man said to me (that he lived with women he did not love and treated them like crap), even one much less more than one, I would run (not walk) in the other direction. I would want no part of somebody who behaved that way. Maybe we just have different moral standards. To me, living together implies a certain expectation of monogamy unless otherwise agreed upon in advance. If somebody said to me, hey, lets' live together in an open relationship and I chose to do that, fine. IF I accepted such a relationship, I still would not accept being lied to or treated like crap. Otherwise, I think living together entails the reasonable expectation of a monagamous relationship, as it implies at least a certain amount of commitment, and long-term live-ins are considered a common law marriage for a reason. I also think you could expect that you will not be lied to or treated like crap. Anybody who thinks other people are there just for their amusement and they can treat them any shitty way they please is not somebody I want any part of, and I certainly would not help to take care of their kids from their other failed relationships. I am not one who makes the men the "bad" guys, I think there are "bad" guys on both sides of the fence. To ask somebody to live with you then abuse them is not something a well-balanced person would do. If you want to play the field, get a roommate or be honest if you want somebody to live with you but have an open relationship. Other than the emotional side of it, you are also exposing that person to whatever STDs you might get from sleeping around. If the other person makes a CHOICE to take that chance, that is one thing, otherwise, I think it sucks to do that to somebody, male or female. If you are not living with somebody and have not committed yourself to an exclusive relationship, then the expectation is you might be sleeping around, but that was not the case in this situation. Gollum, must I point out it is is close to 2010 and 1970s is almost 40 years ago? I was a teenager in the late 1970s and a guy looking at me guaranteed him nothing. I picked who I wanted, not the other way around.

chcltmkr

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 993
Location: First Hammock on the left

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject:

I being a woman side with June but I must add this is really a Man vs woman thing. Most Men don't view sex as most women do. To women its a commitment something that involves love and giving of themselves to someone special. Gollum excuse me for saying this but your comments below are very male. Which being one is expected of you.

Quote:

Also, I shouldn't have to point out that males of our species (and most others) are genetically driven to 'mount' as many females in the herd as possible. It isn't usually a considered matter from the pre-frontal cortex. Being aware of one's own unconscious drives doesn't make one a 'jerk.' While the mind has its own set of rules, the heart desires what the heart desires, and the mating urge posits itself on many fronts.

But most women don't look at that way Gollum. Most women view sex as something more than physical but as something that expresses their love for their counterpart. Yes there are women that don't view it that way and as the years go by and more women feel more at home with their sexuality and more freedom with their role in this changing world more women will start to look at it as purely physical just like their male counterparts. But by and large sex for women is as you put it a frontal lobe thing. An yes you are also right when the right person comes around it does hit a male between the eyes and then they are able to be faithful. But from what I see even that seems to be a battle for even the best of men to stay faithful.

This argument will never be resolved because both sexes approach it from different viewpoints and are dead set that their viewpoint is the correct one. This would leave you to believe that Gollum is right that it may be genetically coded into us. The argument will continue until Homo Sapiens are no longer on this earth without resolution. June, Gollum is right in saying though that there are women that do as much damage to men as there are men that do damage to women.
_________________

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

June

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 3439

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject:

chcltmkr, If you read what I said, I said that I think it goes BOTH ways. I am not and never have been one to vilify men. What we are talking about in this circumstance is living together. If you are going to live with somebody, male or female, and you want an open relationship, you should say so in advance. If the person agrees, that is their choice. What I take issue with is pretending to be monagamous, then doing it behind the other person's back which is cheating, because you are not being honest with your partner. If both people agree to an open relationship, that is another matter entirely. I don't think it is unreasonable for a woman or a man to expect a monagamous relationship if they live with somebody. June

Ocean
Site Admin

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9440
Location: Oregon Coast

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject:

Quote:

If so, then get out the rocks, 'cause I need a good stoning . . . or maybe Ocean and Sake need to spank me again.

Quote:

What I take issue with is pretending to be monagamous, then doing it behind the other person's back which is cheating, because you are not being honest with your partner.

If both people agree to an open relationship, that is another matter entirely.

I don't think it is unreasonable for a woman or a man to expect a monagamous relationship if they live with somebody.

I have only read the tail end of this conversation, forgive me for jumping in possibly uninformed, but I agree with everything said here. A promise is a promise. As confused as I have been about my relationship this past year and a half, and even though I have been attracted to other men, and vice versa, I would NEVER betray the man who I am with now by having sex with another person.
We aren't married, but we have an understanding that this is a monogamous relationship.
If he were to "run out" on me, that wold be the end of it, period. F*ck that. I don't share that well, not when it comes to sex.
_________________

sakeringo

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2907

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject:

Absolutely. I have known plenty of men who have been left heart broken by women exactly as you described, Gollum. I've also known some homo sapiens who have met the same fate, and they also suffer terribly from the affliction. And I totally understand the way both, or all three, sexes are wired as well as the biological imperative and the whole naked ape thing. However, this conversation was addressing one specific man and one specific woman and her situation, not the majority of men or women. The point of the thread is this. When you absolutely already know what you want in a man, don't hook up with a guy who is anathema to that. If you don't want to be cheated on; if you want to be loved; if you want to be treated with respect - well - look - don't demand lasagna in a Chinese restaurant okay? Don't expect a crocodile to behave like a kitten. If sex is just fun and games to you, then by all means, there's the guy for you. No danger of anything real or meaningful or loving with that guy. Knock yourself out. That's not what this woman wanted. She knew going in how he treated women - exactly NOT how she wants to be treated by any man - and she went in anyway. That's ignoring red flags. That's the point of the thread here. Of COURSE you love to plug it in whatever socket you can find. But the issue is he led her to believe in some way that he loved and cared about her. Thus breaking her heart. Her folly (oh please forgive me for talking about you in the third person) was that she bought into the common fantasy that her love would change him. Her love would heal and save him, because she is different from all those others. He is so wounded from his terrible childhood that all he needs is real love and he will then magically turn into a Prince, just like Beauty and the Beast. The biggest bullshit fantasy ever perpetrated on the female gender. Worse than Cinderella and Snow White put together. (what woman in her right mind wants to clean up after 7 slobs and be their goddamn slave? Give me a break - great artwork in the cartoon though). And you know what? If anyone told her going in that this was bullshit she would have gone right on that cruise down de nial. Beautiful river, by the way. You know what they should teach in school? Refuckinglationship skills. Math don't help you when it comes to what you mistakenly think is love. With full understanding of your own male sensitivities, Gollum, do you want me to use the whip this time or do you prefer skin on skin? Come on, you know you love it, baby.

June

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 3439

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject:

Gollum & chcltmkr, Since we are getting into these issues, I broke up with one man for cheating in my life. I was dating him, and he was the one that said he wanted an exclusive relationship. One day he got drunk and tried to pick up my sister, and that was it for me. But, even if it had been another woman besides my sister, I still would have broken up with him because he set the terms and he violated them, to me that is the end, period. I don't have any other experience with men cheating on me, at least not that I know about. Still, I have to say if we are going to get into this, that I think it is disgusting when men want women to be monagamous while they do whatever the hell they want. You especially see this with certain ethnic groups that want to marry the virgin girls but do what they want in the meantime. I have an open mind, and back in the late 70s/early 80s I would have at least been willing to discuss open relationships, but my experience (at least with people I know) is not that, it is that most times the men wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They could sleep with whoever they wanted to and it is fine, but if the woman does it she is a slut. She is supposed to be the good little girl and put up with whatever they do. When is THAT big of a deal made out of a man's virginity? Not quite fair if you ask me.

chcltmkr

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 993
Location: First Hammock on the left

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:57 pm Post subject:

June I totally agree with you! I was just reacting to something Gollum said. I also would and have reacted as you did when it happened to me. I just wanted to point out to Gollum that women look at sex differently then men do which I do believe he is aware of already. I really don't think this argument will ever be resolved. I also think Sake has hit it. The advice she gave was right on. But my point is a lot of men don't see having one night stands or a quickie with so and so is cheating. In their minds a random sexual act does not or should not in any way have any effect on their relationship with someone they love. How many times have you read or seen a man totally shocked his wife or girlfriend would leave them because he had a random sexual encounter or is heavily in to Pornography? First thing out of their mouth besides I'm sorry is, "It was just sex". In Shellsies case he told her how he treated women. As sake said thats the first warning sign. This is someone that you have to be wary of to begin with simply because of the type of human being he is. Fooling around with peoples minds like that is not cool. And yes as women we have bought into the fairytale of Prince Charming and the picket fences. We make the mistake of thinking we can change things and "My love is enough to make everything right". I dated someone for awhile and found out 6 mos later what a dog he was. He even called himself Scooby Doo and took pleasure out of playing mind games with people in general not just women. This is a person that should not have any contact with humans at all. June I probably should have explained myself better in my first post but I still think the issue of Sex and Monogamy is one that will never be solved. _________________ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

Signe

Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 963

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject:

shellsie should have a pretty good idea now of where she went wrong, and has repeatedly gone wrong in the past. "Wrong" meaning getting into relationships that leave her hurt and alone. I've had my share of effed up relationships and finally I figured out to just shut up about it and take responsibility for my own decisions. I am far freer and more empowered than when I sat around feeling depressed because I hooked up with someone who did 95% of his thinking with his little head. But then again, I've built some pretty incredible walls around myself, its a regular fortress with a moat and a maze and geez, I can't even find my way around anymore. It pretty much happens like this: I start seeing someone, I'm nice, he's nice, he wants to "help" me and do things for me, he tells me I'm beautiful. Maybe he takes me out to dinner. We get to know each other, and pretty soon, he makes his power play. He wants to dominate me because he's male and everyone knows males are superior, right??? So, if I like him, I point it out. Depending on his response, he might get another chance. 2nd time. Still like him? Tell him straightforwardly, without hystrionics or whatever, that I don't appreciate whatever it was. Third time, don't call again. period. Ba duh ba duh, that's all folks. Any sign of violence, there is no second chance, but I can read those types and they don't get near me any way. All of this is matter of fact and fairly unemotional. It is my rational brain applied to human relationships and it completely astounds men. They say things like "you think like a man" and "I've never met a woman like you before" and the killer big warning sign line is: "You're the smartest woman I've ever met". See ya. And yes, I'm sorry to say, I've hurt some men. But I'm not going to try to change someone to suit me. If he doesn't suit me, I accept him at face value and make my decision. Likewise, I don't want someone who feels the need to "tinker" with me. Reasonable cooperation, sure. I don't want to fight with someone either. Once in awhile basic disagreements happen, but it shouldn't be all the time, or regularly. Romantic love is a circle of two people, like an electrical circuit. Both sides have to do their part and sometimes one will be the neutral and carry current back and one will be the hot and bring current in to feed the circuit. But the two should be in harmony most of the time or the circuit is open or shorted. So, now you know, shellsie. Either do something with it to help yourself become the happy fulfilled person you ought to be, or don't. _________________ World is crazier and more of it than we think, Incorrigibly plural. I peel and portion A tangerine and spit the pips and feel The drunkenness of things being various.

Ocean
Site Admin

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9440
Location: Oregon Coast

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:57 pm Post subject:

Quote:

That's not what this woman wanted. She knew going in how he treated women - exactly NOT how she wants to be treated by any man - and she went in anyway. That's ignoring red flags. That's the point of the thread here.

There is a reason she connects with men she can't really get what she needs, because we get not what we think we need but what we feel we need.
Meaning, how can I say this?
If you purposely choose to go with a person who cannot fulfill you emotionally, that means an unwillingness yourself to get close to another. Could this be because a part of you doesn't want that? Maybe you aren't really ready for a commitment, but think you should be. Maybe you really do want a secure relationship but there are unresolved issues within yourself that have to be worked out. So then you'd subconsciously attract people and situations in your life in order to work out those issues.

That could help explain why you are attracted to a type that from outside appearances seems opposite of what you want. Even in happy relationships the person you are with expresses the inner you, you know? That's why its called union.
but if the person or people you tend to attract all have the same or similar qualities that cause you to not be happy, this person is a mirror of an aspect of yourself you either do not express, or you deny, or don't want to deal with.
_________________

Gollum

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 378

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject:

"Maybe we just have different moral standards." ----------------------------- Wow, what a great thread! The above statement sounds so very Victorian to me. So, now everybody must be judged by somebody else's 'moral standards.' . . . As ol' Victoria would say, "We are not amused!" Let's see, now . . . according to Muslim moral standards, women's sexuality must be suppressed at all times lest they defile all men with their lust, even if they have to get their clits removed. Moral standards. y'know. And of course according to old Sioux moral standards, the women must do all the hard work while the men either go off hunting or killing (I can say that 'cause I'm part Sioux). Then there's the 'Stepford Wives' moral standards where the women must stand around in the background waiting to be summoned by the alpha males. Moral standards? Why not just step up to the plate and admit that both male and female attitudes are both highly influenced by either genetic or social conditioning . . . and leave the 'moral standards' stuff to the folks from the planet GoodyTwoShoes where all reproduction is asexual. Having said that, I don't mind saying that I consider, statistically-speaking, women to be the better aspect of the Human species. This male-based socio-religious crapola that has taken hold of the species has done little to advance the Human Race. Give me the era of 'The Goddess'! At least we wouldn't be slaughtering the innocents and destroying life on planet Earth. You do know, don't you, that back in the days of the Amazon Women (yes, they did exist) the gals chose the men and had as many men as they wished. I would estimate that about 33% of the species who are men are assholes, while about 30% of the species who are women are assholes. That leaves about 34% of Humanity that are pretty good folks, with a 3% margin of error . . . and the day comes that men and women have the same attitudes, everyone will wear dresses and smoke pipes . . . and nobody will have sex because it will be like screwing your sister.

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June

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 3439

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject:

You are too funny Gollum! I think I am pretty relaxed about sex, but when it comes to somebody saying what they mean and vice versa, that is where I have the problem, and I also hate double standards. I think a lot of men need to understand what an open relationship is, and if they want one, they have to understand it goes both ways, and they can't have their cake and eat it too. I have always chosen my men (after I learned my lesson from the first one that chose me, but I broke up with him as I did not want to be his possession). He was like what I am talking about. He could do whatever he wanted but I had to be the sweet little virgin till we got married...NOT, and I gave my virginity to another man (which I am sure he still resents me for, but the other man was a good friend to me when I needed one). I love what you said about the Goddesses. I think people should be real and honest with each other. If you can't be faithful, then be honest enough to say you need an open relationship. I see it more as a problem with honesty than a problem with sex.

Gollum

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 378

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject:

I don't mean to be insulting, but when I was much younger I had a number of women tell me, "I don't want to know, so say nothing," or "I don't want to know, so tell me lies rather than the raw truth." Drawing a woman's wrath because a guy told the raw truth is a lesson long remembered.

June

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 3439

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject:

I guess I am not the average woman because I would rather know the truth, then decide if I wanted to be in a open relationship with that person or not. If they don't tell me, then I don't have all the facts, so I can't make an informed choice and that would make me very angry if I found out and would be the end of the relationship. I never told a man I don't want to know, not even once. I don't like living in a state of denial. It is also dangerous because of STDs. I managed to never catch one, but you take your chances if/when you are not open and honest. For me to stay in an open relationshp, it would probably have to be really great sex or I would have to think it had potential for the future to stay in it. I would not say that I would not stay in a relationship because of sex (I would have to at least really like the person though) , but when I found something better, I would drop him, and I would not lead him on while in the relationship. Most of the time, men got too serious about me and I didn't love them so I would just break up with them rather than letting it drag on. I only had one guy actually call me and break up with me (and I didn't really care about him so it didn't matter to me). I always have believed in holding on with an open hand. If somebody wants to be with you, they will, you can't control them. Maybe I think more like a man.

Signe

Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 963

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:17 am Post subject:

Quote:

Why not just step up to the plate and admit that both male and female attitudes are both highly influenced by either genetic or social conditioning . . . and leave the 'moral standards' stuff to the folks from the planet GoodyTwoShoes where all reproduction is asexual.

awesome post gollum. Rather than one or the other energy dominating, I would prefer a balance.

Ocean hit it too, at least for me, and I think I'm pretty typically human. I've often thought that subconsciously I really want to be alone most of the time. Or, at least be with someone who can leave me alone for periods of time, and let me be myself on my quest, even though I joust at windmills sometimes.

Maybe I'm just too traumatized by the whole thing and find myself to be much happier and stronger in my spiritual path when I am alone. Men seem to distract me from my source. I have mystical experiences, then I start seeing a guy, and boom. done. No more bliss and joy and love filling me until I'm reduced to tears of gratitude and think my human frame will fail. I'm not sure why that is, but it has been unfailingly so thus far. And I am content most of the time with my books and animals and friends.

It's just about choices we make and how we learn our lessons, and the choices made after that lesson, and so on throughout life. Hopefully it leads to the greater good.

I hope shellsie finds a way to her true heart's desire, which may be to feel that complete universal unconditional love our souls yearn for but can only be found through ourselves in connection with that which creates all. I hope she learns to love herself with such compassion and empathy that she wouldn't think of letting someone harm her again. I hope she finds a man who will appreciate her the way she appreciates him.
_________________
World is crazier and more of it than we think,
Incorrigibly plural. I peel and portion
A tangerine and spit the pips and feel
The drunkenness of things being various.

Ocean
Site Admin

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9440
Location: Oregon Coast

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:29 am Post subject:

Quote:

Men seem to distract me from my source. I have mystical experiences, then I start seeing a guy, and boom. done.

I experienced this in the current relationship. It has been very hard for me to get back to my magical self, as I refer to it. When we first got together he really was stingy with my personal time- but now over the years it has eased and it is only through being able to spend alone time again that I have started, thankfully, to reconnect. I really had feared, I'd died in that way.

Seriously if anything happens to this relationship, I am done, and will spend the rest of my life in religious seclusion.

Shelsie I think one day you will find what you are looking for. It will happen when you settle inside of yourself what it is you want.
_________________

shellsie

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:49 am Post subject:

Hello all! I like your different responses and that you share your personal experiences. I understand we all have had bad relationship. In some way or another. Some worse than others. I asked my question here because I really didnt want to go deeper into this man and his emotional problems, which in the end just shows up to be a reflection of my own emotional problems haunting around... and in that way expose myself totally on the web. Which it feels I allready have done anyway... I didnt expect this massive respons from the forummembers, but Im very pleased you take an interest in a fellow human beeing and her problems struggle with lifeissues. I do appriciate your support and advice. But my question has many layers to it. And many circumstances surronding it and factors to concider, I didnt tell you about. You must remember that this man didnt show himself to me at first. And I was blinded by the light. He admitted in the end of our relationship that he knew that if he was to be himself with me, he knew I would not have him around in the first place. So he played a roll, set up an act as the perfect partner and I was sooo wonderful. He told me over and over again that I was soooo special...He never had loved before...You probably all know the story by now, girls.... And I belived him! Yes there were bloody red flags around in between the red roses and choladeboxes....and some more red flags after we moved in together. Like surfing on pornosites...sexchats with women in nights when I was asleep. All behind my back of course... And never admitting anything to me when I confronted him severel times...I found out eventually. There are signs and clues..... The sexissue is relevant in any relationship and I learned that men have another sexuality than a woman. At least this man, but I think it goes for most men. Like somebody allready said. (Sorry for not quoting, but I dont know how) I want to bond emotionally with a man by having sex with him. For me its a deep connection beeing made, having sex. He just wanted an emotional tensionrealse by having sex with me. The sex for him could be with anybody. Even by internet. To chat and look at women by a webcam did it for him too....While his partner sleeping in the next room...And look at pictures of aother womens genitals...To him it didnt matter who was infront of him. The sex was probably not about emotional bonding at all. And that also broke my heart. Though I dont think he ever had sex with a women for real while living with me...just in his head....Though he probably wanted to and fantizied about it...I dont know. At the same time he wanted to marry me. Yes totally crazy. I know. Now. But I frankly dont care anymore...I'm glad its over and that I get out of there in time...that I have the courage to stand up for myself. Its amazing how this exchange on this reedingroom with you, folks, have made me stronger and opened my eyes. Sakeringo: I found some of your words harsh and for a moment I felt hurt by them, BUT I know you are right. It is not so easy all the time...beeing a human.... Though your words made me stronger..and made me confront myself. Thank you all, Shellsie

chcltmkr

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 993
Location: First Hammock on the left

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:53 pm Post subject:

Shellsie,

Its good this thread is helping you. THere are a lot of very good people on this forum and we are kind of like a family. This is an emotionally charged discussion that is bound to spark debate etc no matter who brings it up because its about a very basic part of life. Human relationships and emotions.

Its really interesting to read everyones responses and Gollum you are very funny but also very astute. Re your statement;

Quote:

I don't mean to be insulting, but when I was much younger I had a number of women tell me, "I don't want to know, so say nothing," or "I don't want to know, so tell me lies rather than the raw truth." Drawing a woman's wrath because a guy told the raw truth is a lesson long remembered.

But thats just it, the women you saw were probably as young as you. As you get older you value the truth more at least I do. I would rather someone tell me from the very beginning this is just casual I'm not into a longterm thing. Or I have a lot of Girlfriends. Rather than "Oh baby your the only one for me" then hes screwing anything that walks behind your back. Why set someone up like that. It doesn't make sense.

I had a guy from day 2 tell me he loved me hoping I would go to bed with him right away. Hell I ran from that one. Scared the crap out of me. I also was seeing someone for 2 years and never suspected how posessive he was until one day I caught him feeling the hood of my car when he was coming to see me. After that I started noticing little things that set off red flags that I previously ignored like he wanted to know everywhere I went and with who but when I asked him where he was it became a major argument. Found out 3 months after I broke up with him from a mutual acquaintence he was living with someone and had been arrested a couple of times for domestic violence. Dodged a huge bullet on that one.

Anyway I think Junes point is well taken about honesty. Why play the games? Why set up a woman just to sleep with her and then break her heart afterwards. It doesn't make sense. Just be honest about it.

Gollum I really did love your post now if we could get the other 33% of men to feel as you do we wouldn't be having these conversations.
_________________

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

sakeringo

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2907

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject:

I realize that when I present the truth and say what I feel someone needs to hear and not what they necessarily want to hear it sounds harsh, but I use that bluntness in order to shock a person into looking at reality. Friends don't support erroneous beliefs, but speak true even if it sounds harsh. Signe's last post really said it all so beautifully. That's the one I would read and re-read again and again until I got it. That you come to love yourself with so much compassion that you never again let anyone treat you the way this man treated you. That's what I wish for you too. My own personal experiences were very close to what Signe describes, and I too am much happier with my books, animals and friends than I ever was with any man. If a man were to come into my experience and be a companion and a friend and a lover and truly compatible where the current between us is viable, that would be lovely. If not, that is also lovely. It's all good. There is great strength when we can see beyond thinking we need a man in order to be whole and see instead the very real possibility of a fulfilling and joyful life with or without a man. Don't believe the social double standard cliches. A man alone, take George Clooney as an example, is a romantic dashing figure. When he dates he dates. A woman alone is a spinster. When she dates she is looking for a husband. If she doesn't date she must certainly be a lesbian. If George doesn't date he's a man's man who is busy with his career. At the very least society looks upon a woman alone as a tragic figure. What a load of crap that is. And if you can bear to re-read any of my "harsh" post, I hope you will see it in the spirit with which it was intended - understanding, compassion, but zeroing in, even if it makes you feel a bit uncomfortable, with the answer to how to get over him, which was the original question. You get over him by stopping all focus on him and focusing on yourself and finding joy in life. See? Understanding him is not going to prevent you falling prey to such a man again. Only understanding yourself will do that. This is what I hear all the time all my life from girlfriends when they break up and what I myself also did - "HE HE HE HE HE HE HE HE" - I don't know how my friends put up with me - I was the WORST! and here is what I have never ever heard from any man who just broke up, "SHE SHE SHE" Maybe in order to heal a bit faster we women do have to think more like men. The one thing most men never do when they break up is blame themselves and it's the one thing most women do consistently. Why wasn't my love enough? Why couldn't he love me? What's wrong with me? This is stinkin thinkin as the alkies say. From a sociological viewpoint, as Gollum addressed the Goddess driven society, I personally think it is time all these games came to an end and men and women find their balance in this world. Both are needed, both are in every single one of us. It's time to put the patriarchy aside as the miserable failure that it is. The matriarchy also failed. We need to find a balance. As they sang in Candide, "We'll build our house and chop our wood and make our garden grow - and make our garden grow." Together. Will it ever happen? I have no idea. Only hope.

Ocean
Site Admin

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 9440
Location: Oregon Coast

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject:

(((shellsie))) You'll find the collective feminine consciousness of this forum to be very similar to the common perception of Jewish mothers, I think. We may fret over you and fuss some, while we stuff you full of food and make sure you bundle up before going out. These women- well we all are strong and vocal, and willing to share. But there is also mutual respect and camaraderie too. It is all in love. I really believe that. Hope to see you in other threads too. :-) I have wanted to visit Sweden ever since i did a report on the country in 5th grade. Welcome to our fold. _________________

chcltmkr

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 993
Location: First Hammock on the left

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:54 pm Post subject:

Sake You are so smart girl glad we are friends! _________________ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

sakeringo

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2907

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject:

I can't wait until we can be friends in person, and eagle said she's coming to my party! lol. We're gonna have a ball in the city with too. I know my house will sell in God's time, but oh how I want God's time and mine to agree just once and be now!!!!!!! Sorry for the hijack.

June

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 3439

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject:

Shellsie, I eventually found a very good man who is my husband. But, I found him when I was not looking for a husband, I was just going about my life. Take care of you and do what you need to do for yourself. If you don't allow that kind of thing into your life, then it won't be there ever again. That means waiting to get involved unless or until you are sure you can trust the person, that means heeding a red flag if you see it, and breaking up with the person if you do. Best of fortune to you. June

dnatree

Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 487

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Men (women) distract me from my source. I have mystical experiences, then I start seeing a guy, and boom. done.

She (my life) had become everything that I touched and everything that I felt so why when I saw an attractive women did it take away from Spirit? It turned out to be the past experience and thoughts about relationship that came up that did it, so I learned to just make the flirting part of the moment of poetry and let go if it began to take me away. Now there is only YOU and I even if I am flirting with You Ocean about pink toys. It turned out that my religious upbringing and programming was making me hide from Spirit whenever I saw an attractive women, but now the attraction is part of YOU/my life. (uninhibited) Without true intent this could become an excuse but You know when you are not in the moment and You learn to stay there. It is a question of wether You love these things more that Your life, same thing with addictions, things don't control You, (You can do anything) so long as You can stay connected, staying connected becomes all there is. You don't try to appear good for others, you find the most comfortable place with Spirit and love it. They would just have to know You and those that would misunderstand because of a veil over their eyes are repelled by the action of staying in Spirit.
_________________
Your moments in wonder, reveal the true intentions of the heart. The smallest of points overlooked changes entirely everything and renders all interpretations meaningless.

PM

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 515

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject:

Shellsie You know he didn't love you and you were his in between woman, for him it was about the sex more than anything. And for some men 10,000 women wouldn't be enough because they're empty, searching for their next new fix to fill them up. That part of it has nothing to do with you But the part that does have to do with you is how you feel about you and what are you doing for you. Do you feel you need a man to be complete? Anytime you are not full and you proceed to choose a mate you tend to draw someone who will make you feel worse, magnify the fact that you need the perfect relationship to feel good or whole. And it works in reverse when you feel whole and full you tend to attract someone who will affirm those feelings So work on examining yourself, fill yourself up, create your own sense of wholeness and then you'll be ready to draw the right person to you. on a side note: men with small penises often feel the need to seek out many female partners to prove themselves, its like a sexual Napolean complex _________________ http://www.myspace.com/lovablegypsy

dnatree

Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 487

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject:

Had a synch about "starting over" related to the word "Upsi-Daisy" related to my post here about the daisies.

Quote:

If you wait
Tommorrow Morning
Something Fresh will invite You to begin a new day!!

Upsi daisy
Pam and I were talking about “upsi daisy” last night and “upsi tree” as it is easier to get up a tree than a daisy. And she said “upsi daisy “ was about picking up a child like you pick up a daisy, or when they fall down and you pick then back up.

Pushing up daisies
We got home and there was a commercial about the Movie "Pushing up Daisies" which after looking on the net I found books and movies with a related theme of starting over again.

http://www.amazon.com/Pushing-Up-Daisies-Jamise-Dames/dp/0743492668

Pushing Up Daisies: A Novel (Paperback)
by Jamise L. Dames (Author)

Quote:

A Tragic Past...
Daisy Parker's boyfriend has strayed one too many times and she's no longer sitting pretty. Having sacrificed seven years of her life to being his faithful woman and raising his nine-year-old son, the only thing that will calm her now is to hurl his beloved wardrobe out their second-story window. Single life may scare Daisy, but her mind is made up -- when the good-for-nothing returns, she'll serve him his walking papers. Only he isn't up to his old tricks that night, and what goes down strips Daisy of the option to choose. She's on her own.

...A Hopeful Future
Left penniless, homeless, and jobless, Daisy struggles to make a home for herself and her son. Just when she seems poised to take control and put the baggage of her past behind her, complications arise when the towering frame of Daisy's deliciously handsome college crush strolls into town. His unexpected attention makes her feel alive, yet she's been burned by love once and isn't sure she can take the heat. As undeniable passions rise, so do the stakes, and Daisy can't stand to lose another round....

A compelling tale of life, love, and hope.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070576/plotsummary

I originally wrote this post without thinking about the daisies I had already posted here but after writing it I saw the additional synch. This is also related to several wonderful sweethearts that have posted here and that will read this as it will be posted on my website also.
_________________
Your moments in wonder, reveal the true intentions of the heart. The smallest of points overlooked changes entirely everything and renders all interpretations meaningless.