DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222 Good bye
This will be my last thread because it is no longer
a joy. So I do what I always do and start fresh. Tommorrow I will not be here
to answer in my own defense anymore.
I will do something completely new. But first here is my last two messages. The
honeybee and the good bye.
The heart as illustrated by the honeybee.
I want to illustrate how my life created my perception of the heart.
If you can visualize the relationship of the honeybee to the flower, in that
the heart of the honeybee can be seen as following his delight. For though he
loves the nectar, the law of God is completed in him as layers of his own
intentions. What I mean is at 90 degrees to the intent of the honeybee with the
flower life is using the honeybee to complete it’s perfect work. (Pollination)
And many other processes that the being of the honeybee does not have to worry
himself with for it is Gods work in him. The honeybee does not have to do this
for it is written on its heart. Now the heart of man is a formable thing and
each is creating his own heart by what he chooses to fill it with. The
experiences and the exquisite nature of how life teaches the individual through
synchronicity and all wonders as well as all writings is the water and wonder
of life as well as my greatest teacher. I am your way, I am your truth, I am
your life is what spirit says to me and only me. What does he say to you and
only you? What does a book, or a church or any other flesh know about this love
between the bridegroom and bride? And whose business is it. Anyway. Inquire of
your Christ as to what is the greatest love that you can give back and be about
only that. It may be what you already are DIEING to do. But if not I bet what
you are dieing to do is something that will teach you the most about spirit.
Wether I am a stranger, or a anti-christ or a fool is for each of you to determine
for yourself. Anyone that takes my words and claims they can interpret them for
someone else hates me and is a thief of my words.. And anyone that takes them
and it helps their spirit it is for their private interpretation not for
another.
Take out the bad layers
You think you see
And in everyone you will find me
First let me apologize to each of you if I have offended,,, I was just myself
in the moment with my life’s spirit. I want you to know that you are so free
that you can create exactly that which is perfect in your sight. Collect for
yourself everything that you love, and ponder only these things. I had to
become like the members in this group in order to communicate with them. I do
not necessarily believe that you should believe what I say just that you eat it
(fruit) if it tastes sweet to you and the parts that you do not want or believe
let go of. To those that spirit speaks through me let it be unto you spirit,
but if you believe another way than God wishes that you continue your path and do
not give a thought to my life. I do not wish to offend. I am just me, a
stranger, . What I offer is from my perspective and embodies feelings from
people hurt by Christianity that do not have a voice. It is truth from my life,
and therefore only fruit for another, I cannot demand you worship this new
interpretation for that is not the freedom we are given. It entitles me to the
rights of any fruit, I can put my seed in it and if it is sweet then they will
eat and pass it on. It may be a point in the equation you overlooked or it may
be your interpretation fulfilling itself in another way. If what I offered hurt
you then understand my intention is only to fill the emptyness and like any
other creature my God defended me because of my testimony in my reality.You are
already right before you felt you have to be right (but not as the world says
"this is what is right"and you do not have to change from who you are
to be right maybe just to grow more. Just if you find something good,,,, don’t
throw it out because it will not fit in your interpretation of a book. You were
put in this garden with twelve tree's you are free to eat from all of them
accept beware of the parts that lure you into shame and blame. Is not all
things fruit yet one eats what he loves and discards what offends him. Anyway
when a tree begins to bring forth bad fruit you cut it down and start over. Now
I am going to cut down my own tree here on your forum to show you that my God
does not demand you eat my fruit, because it is really fruit best suited
outside of this house. Like the stranger so that he can defend himself from
religion in the future. The fruit of this here is really meant for another and
she will study it and love it and receive it as a gift. So I will gather my
words and take them to her. Perhaps the Indians, yea the hopi, their right
everybody else go to hell… haha just joking! Oh when someone tells you that the
truth is in Stephentree’s writings or in the Baptist church or buddist or hindu
don’t believe them for the truth is only given in your spirit by the truth
revealed to you by your God. I myself want some to believe Christianity so that
they can keep servicing mankind the way they are with better fruit as a non
interpreting entity. This is my life. If it is not sweet fruit to you, then
don’t eat it. These are my words, whoever uses them to free men, to them they
are a gift. Whoever uses them to enslave men is a thief and a robber. (But that
is not necessarily a bad person as we all did that at one time didn’t we ALL.)
Did not christ suffer the same? Thank you each of you for allowing me to
communicate. I wish all men on both sides of all issues blessing. Please do not
alter any of the threads until I finish copying all that I have written. In
order for me to continue responding here it takes me to a place that is not one
of my loves, and so I could not continue from this venue to produce the best
that I can offer. I must go elsewhere..... God bless you all,,,, you are not
wrong, you are just not right and that is not a bad thing. Please try to forget
I was here unless I benefited you. Thanks
"Ahh a fresh start, where shall I wander and wonder tommorrow?"
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-21-2002 at 10:27 AM
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echo
Senior
Member
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 174
DNA,
Sorry you won't see this, but perhaps you'll sneak back in for a look. I hope
so. I understand how the "joy" can go out of participating in this
forum. I've had it happen to me, and after a break, found that I could return
and find the joy again. It does become tiresome to feel you are continually
having to stand your ground and defend your point, especially when it seems to
get you nowhere fast and are attacked left and right. I did find that when I
looked at it a little differently it went a little more smoothly. When I took the
perspective of not trying to teach others, but trying to learn more for myself,
to ground myself more deeply in God's Word, the joy, for the most part,
returned. When I say, trying to learn more for myself, I don't mean taking
other's word for it. What this forum has done for me is force me to examine
more closely my beliefs and dig more deeply into the scriptures on which my
beliefs are based. In other words, I've become more deeply convinced of what I
believe. It also enables me to better explain why I believe what I believe.
Certainly I can see things for myself and I know why I believe, but explaining
that belief to someone else can get quite difficult at times. I think of it as
honing my skills so on the occasions when God sends someone that I'm to teach,
I'll be ready.
At any rate, God bless you DNA, abundantly above all that you ask or think. And
may He lead you where you are to be the best for Him.
__________________
Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him,
and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
God Bless,
Sue
Maccabaeus
Moderator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 679
Shalom
I think we all experience "burnout" wrt the forum. I recently went on
vacation where I was physically away from the internet for two weeks. After returning
from vacation I didn't jump right in, but simply monitored the posts in my
section of the forum for awhile. This week was the first time in about 5 weeks
that I have posted anything. I certainly feel that there are times when I am
unfairly attacked or that my position is distorted. It comes with the
territory! However, I know what I believe and why I believe it. I have done the
research. I will not be easily shaken! I let the unfair and/or unlearned
criticism roll off me like water rolls off the back of a duck.
Maccabee
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Well actually I have said what I have to say and
can learn much more from my life in the moment. I appreciate even those that
did attack me as it is not the words a man leaves behind but the spirit. What
is more important, the punctuation, the spelling, the interpretation, the words
someone wrote, or the spirit they left behind? Thanks all of you, you helped me
complete my intent here. And I plan on taking each thread and having them
studied by myself and others but not here. I believe the spirit (smallest of
points I have been given by my life) will change things elsewhere for many
persecuted by religion, and in time (fast, short, time) for all of
christianity. Not my words so much as the spirit for "I am bursting forth as
many roses on the vine, and my (God as man's spirit) fragrance will draw all
men unto me. Hearts will unfold like flowers before me! God bless and peace is
not too far away after what is blocking the door is removed. Oh and final
blessing to PEH and his house, and VMAT. . You see my life has taught me many
things alone, but I did not know what I learned writing and struggling for and
with each of you to get to what God has for us. You see most of what I wrote
was new "in the spirit" to me and would not have been learned except
that I see what you were wrestling with yourselves. Not what I wrote but what
actually happened here will be the focus of a links page in the future to show
how the spirit did speak through "YOU and I". There is no home in
christianity for the stranger, nowhere he can lay his head, nowhere he is
accepted. I mostly live in my car (I don't work, money comes from coincidences
and working on tv's at motels here and there. So I may drop in and peek from
time to time. I will come and peek from time to time but don't plan on
contributing here anymore as I have said what I came to say and learn. Bye and
thank you again. www.stephentree.com
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-21-2002 at 09:20 PM
peh
Senior
Member
Registered: Jun 2002
Location: south carolina
Posts: 114
Dear DNATree
I'm sorry the forum is not giving you joy as it
once did. I for one will miss peeking in at your poetical writings. I usually
didn't understand much you said, the "stream-of-consciousness" type
of writing is difficult to follow when you are outside the mind creating it.
But, what I did understand was your love for God and mankind, and your great
desire to be totally enwrapped in His love for you. I am sorry that people have
not been kinder to you, I found you a great refreshment and blessing and
believe many others would too, if they would not strain to put meaning to what
you say beyond what you intend, which is, (pardon me for presumption, but I
believe I also have the Spirit 
)
verbal paintings of the things of the Spirit. I thank you for mentioning me by
name in your blessings, I am grateful and believe it to already being done
because of your prayerful intention.
God richly bless you , my chaver tov
__________________
peh
Teach me to be diligent but not impatient, teach me to be persistent but not
obstinate, teach me to be enthusiastic but not fanatic. Then, O God, I may be
worthy to teach.
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Just one more thing then, for (you)
Consider the harlot of revelations
For did not Jesus already forgive the harlot
And turning the other cheek he forgave them that had said “how dare you forgive
the harlot”” You cannot forgive the harlot.”
The intended bride rejected him (the spirit)
That was when she felt rejected.
For the spirit was lonely and only could find a “stranger” to talk to. (Stephen
Tree Intro)
But how could he forget his body, his wife.
His Joy
Love you!
GoldRush!
Last
edited by DNATREE on 08-25-2002 at 04:11 AM
peh
Senior
Member
Registered: Jun 2002
Location: south carolina
Posts: 114
Dear DNATree
Don't want to prolong your departure, as I sense
these messages are doing, but I had to respond to your last post. It stirred
something in me that has been working for a few days: and that is that we live
in what we believe in. That is, if I believe in the world around me, that is
where I "live", seeing, hearing, feeling, absorbing what there is
around me. If I believe in the Kingdom of God, that is where I "live",
experiencing its special sights, sounds, and atmosphere.
As you wrote, "The intended bride rejected him (the spirit)
That was when she felt rejected."
If I do not seek Him, I will not find Him. It is not that He has rejected me,
but that I have "believed out" of Him.
Thank you, dear DNATree, for your obedience to the Spirit in posting this
confirmation that it is the Spirit Who has been speaking to me of this.
__________________
peh
Teach me to be diligent but not impatient, teach me to be persistent but not
obstinate, teach me to be enthusiastic but not fanatic. Then, O God, I may be
worthy to teach.
vmatt
Senior
Member
Registered: Jul 2002
Location:
Posts: 265
You have a long way to go to find out that what you
think, feel and believe means nothing whithout knowing how it relates to the
God who made you. Until you decide for yourself that truth is all that really
matters you will drown in the philosophy of mankind. You are leaving because
you have met those who believe God has revealed the truth through the word of
scripture and are protected from the winds of philosophy you espouse. Denying
the "dead interpretations" of man you reject the word of your God at
the same time and to your own hurt.
peh
Senior
Member
Registered: Jun 2002
Location: south carolina
Posts: 114
vmatt
You are a prime example of what scares me most
about so-called "Christian" haters. You cause me dread because you
sail under the flag of Christianity and "know not what manner of spirit
you are of". You read minds? That is how you know best why DNATree is
leaving?
I'd say you are the one in need of heeding these words, "You have a long
way to go to find out that what you think, feel and believe means nothing
whithout knowing how it relates to the God who made you."
"But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy..."(Matt
9:13)
__________________
peh
Teach me to be diligent but not impatient, teach me to be persistent but not
obstinate, teach me to be enthusiastic but not fanatic. Then, O God, I may be
worthy to teach.
Eben Abram
Senior
Member
Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Sojourner....passing thru...
Posts: 1131
May
the Words of my mouth and the Meditation.....
Shalom Alecheim DNA
Family is family
Friends are friends
As I have told one I will tell a thousand.
As I have invited one I will invite more
You are always welcome at my shabbes table and in communion we would drink wine
and break bread together till break of dawn and you be on the Way of the L-rd.
You shall return here and when you do your friends shall still be here and none
whom would appear hostile are truly enemies at all but merely Human Beings you
have not yet met in the hour of affliction.
Is it not such a time as this we were all born?
Then if so be the L-rd has chosen you to go you shall be blessed....... and if
be he make a way for you to stay we shall be blessed indeed.
The L-rd bless thee and keep thee but as it is given to man to appoint and
annoint to others a blessing or a curse;
I choose to bless you.
G-d bless you in the fear of the L-rd and the love of his grace as you seek his
face and your place in this world.
Shall it not be we hsall hear of you and give thanks be to G-d the Almighty we
have known you?
Aye and I say yes.
Be blessed
Eben Abram
__________________
Every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man
that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and
old.
l
vmatt
Senior
Member
Registered: Jul 2002
Location:
Posts: 265
Re: vmatt
quote:
Originally posted by peh
You are a prime example of what scares me most about so-called
"Christian" haters. You cause me dread because you sail under the
flag of Christianity and "know not what manner of spirit you are of".
You read minds? That is how you know best why DNATree is leaving?
I'd say you are the one in need of heeding these words, "You have a long
way to go to find out that what you think, feel and believe means nothing
whithout knowing how it relates to the God who made you."
"But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy..."(Matt
9:13)
peh,
Do not be scared.
I hate no one.
I fly no flag.
I have the Spirit.
I do not read minds.
I gave my advice based on listening closely to DNATree's words.
I read words.
Truly I do have a long way to go, I follow my own advice.
I show mercy by my advice and sometimes it is hurtful.
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
I will return in the newness of his return, for he
is continually making me brand new. You see what you all have said here is what
I was waiting for.
One will be taken and another left (let this spirit increase)
Broken and contrite heart toward each other
It is expediant that I go away, for if I do not the comforter will not come.
For when one is taken and another left, the void in the one left is the
treasure
For then the one taken, is found within that one left, within that void..
When the veil of this flesh is lifted, you and I are again one.
We don’t want to be right, neither the left or the right, but this is all that
I would want you to remember. As Paul said, I wish that you knew nothing, but
Christ, and him crucified. For the rejection, and the loneliness of that
bewilderness is the meeting place of your heart. I am a teacher, but none would
hire me for what I teach is already taught by life.
Behold I am making all things new. (spirit)
It is not anything I said that will speak as loud as what has happened between
"You and I" on this forum. It is not what you and I say here that is
as discriptive as what happened here.
Read it again (The story of you and I) READ IT AGAIN, THE STORY OF "YOU AND I"..... The
never ending story!
"New
Leaves (words) " Coming to a tree near you!
And when he opened his eyes, he saw men walking around as trees.
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-27-2002 at 04:30 AM
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
DNA,
Nothing like being truthful about something.
I think we should call you "The Who". Which last concert is this?
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Hey, this thread is only for friends.... Ok John
....you can stay
Titus
Member
Registered: Jul 2002
Location:
Posts: 56
DNATREE,
consider me your friend. I'm very sorry to see you leave and i hope you'll be
back one day. Blessings to you and to your family. -Titus
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
I found this today and it is very much my
experience for the last 22 years.
Synchronicity,
Signs and Symbols
Blessings
tonyshaw
Member
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 33
I apologize for interupting into a private moment
here, but I checked out the site for the book.
I haven't read the book, but I read the intro carefully. I would be cautious
about this book because it seems to sound similar to New Age, Dynamics (of the
Mind), and Christian Scientology.
These all admit that God exists, but that everything in nature is tied
together, and you can tap into this "power" on your own via some kind
of personal effort.
This rings true to what Satan's first sin was - he felt he could tap into God's
power and defeat God. Then, he tried to tempt Adam and Eve to tap into the
power, and be LIKE God.
The book does look like it has a lot of nice stories in it. And
althogh it's very possible that I am way wrong here, it never hurts to be
cautious.
I apologize, again, for the interuption.
Peace, Justice, and Salvation in Jesus.
__________________
John 3:30
dmac5
Senior
Member
Registered: Jul 2002
Location:
Posts: 497
I browsed the site as well. I failed to understand
about 99% of what he said here on this board, and even less of what he said on
the site. Stream of consciousness writing has never been easy for me to grasp,
and I am not sure that is a bad thing, considering that I don't know what
consciousness was being written down.
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Judging
Please understand I am not talking about
individuals so much here as the "interpretations" that they follow.
(Let my anger tear the veil of interpretation which lies between me and you,
for to put the anger on you is to be angry at one's self. For there is only you
and I and when the veil of this flesh is lifted, you and I are one.) Please
don't take it personally, our intent is to learn and get to truth. I am willing
to be wrong you see because sometimes if your desire to be right is greater
than your desire to love and understand each other then we are not serving each
other or God. I just am bringing to light things that the stranger cannot
defend himself on because he is judged by the interpretations of Christianity.
That is like me judging you by my interpretations. Would you like that. You see
this book (bible) gives that multitude great power over men but it is not the
power of God. It is the power of interpretation as the pharasee's judged. You
see when they say that I do the same thing on this forum they overlook the fact
that my interpretation does not judge them at all, but what I am saying is that
your own "christian interpretation" is what you are using to judge
others and they have no chance to refute this because you supposedly (all the
christian faith) have God on your side therefore your interpretation that all
must follow is god. This is the god I spoke of that (ye are gods) "any god
that creates a hell will go there" Therefore I have the God of Abraham
behind me when I say that because ye are gods, and you are creating your hell)
but my words were stolen and misinterpreted as the original words of Jesus
were. Only the control by who supposedly owns the words is left and that is
what will be proven soon. If your "interpretation" has one point out of
place then it is not the word of God that you are judging others by, it is you
judging them using self rightness, so until you are perfect you cannot
interpret for anyone else. If you think I am judging you are wrong, I am just
showing you what Mainstream Christianity is putting forth from their mouth and
according to their own words they will be judged by themselves,, not me,,, not
God,, ye are gods, and the god that creates a hell will go there. Love believes
all things, christianity is hating most all things except their own
interpretation that is not of God. They think since they own the book and no
other "interpretation" can be allowed because of the
"interpretation" that "they are right" but they have not
read the fine print and when the spirit that comes after me places his foot
print down it will be much worse toward these than what I have warned you of. I
am not judging, this is a warning. Will you cover it up so that millions locked
in the clutches of man's interpretation will never see it, or will you warn
them of the footprint that is coming? Cause when it occurs it will be as in the
days of Babel when their language was confused,, the smallest of points altered
everything.
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
DNA,
Stirred up the bees nest, eh?
I claim to not judge but to warn. You claim the same thing, though both of us
see judgement in the other. Who is right?
You claim to know God, and yet your very words have shown that your claims
cannot be trusted. No one is claiming perfection, unless you are, but could it
be possible that some here have been where you are, and have grown out of it?
Should the traveler not warn other travelers of the danger on the road, if they
have already encountered them?
Regardless, though your words try to set it aside, you have become angry. You
are trying to control this, and that is noble of you, but still you behave as
if poked by a stick. I hold no weapon in my hand, and other than deception,
have accused you of no crime. It is not your fault that you believe what you
believe, just as I was convinced that I understood the truth when I too
followed the path you are on. Sadly, it is not even your fault that the words
that I offer are a stick to strike, instead of a stick to help you from the
quagmire of your beliefs.
I know who you speak of. This one who will soon be here. He is not God. You are
right, he will make all who love God Almighty and who follow Jesus Christ to
suffer horribly. How can you rejoice in such a one as he? He will make the
earth a living hell. What kind of master is that?
Will you hold the axe over the head of his enemies, and deliver the fatal blow?
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
It is not for them that I am delighted but for the
rest of the world that will not be judged by them anymore. For the stranger and
the begger I am delighted indeed. Has God told you that your interpretation of
this one that is coming is correct or has a book told you.
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
Hmmm.....
So you rejoice that those who are leading a path to distruction will no longer
have those who try to help them leave that path.
Prov. 9:7
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
Sadly, I was intimate with this one in my past. We
walked hand in hand while I was blinded by my own foolishness. God was the one
who woke me up and showed me the truth about the one that I followed. I hope
that He grants you such a gift also.
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
I am delighted that they who are blocking the door
to seeing what Jesus was saying will be removed and the world will not have to
worship the interpretation anymore. You cannot see that they have judged the
world falsely. I have not come to judge the world but to reveal how you will
judge yourselves. For all go to heaven wether you want some to go to hell or
not, but the self right that have read a book and judged the world without ever
consulting spirit have been caught in a snare. Your original intent of the love
of Jesus will be fulfilled. For even those that blaspheme the spirit of God in me
here can repent and stop persecuting "the stranger" and help him as
Jesus taught. You see it is not for those that do not believe christians that a
repentance is due, but for those that read a book and judged the world saying
they must repent, these are they that must repent. They believe themselves safe
behind the veil of that interpretation. They are the most endangered species
but by their own creation. Like the smallest of points they have overlooked
they believe others evil because they do not agree with an interpretation that
did not come from God. So believing them evil they have judged themselves evil.
Why is it so evil for me to say you are in heaven yet veiled. It is for this
good thing that does not condemn anyone that I will be called evil. But them
having read a book and not waiting for the spirit they are judged themselves
already by such a belief in an idol of collected scripture. Just because the
truth will set all men free and be a blessing to all the nations does not make
it evil. It embarrases hypocrites, and sets millions in christianity free for
many are close to the door but cannot reconcile the interpretation they are
told is infallable. The path of destruction is the path of reading a book and
never having consulted spirit, before you open your mouth and judge others.
Ironic, that God would judge christianity this way, but how marvelous it is in
my eyes. For first judgement will come to them that the veil be removed so that
the spirit of God in all men may then be poured out as a blessing to the
nations.
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-19-2002 at 10:21 PM
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
The book that you malign was written by the Spirit
of God, is interpreted through the Spirit of God, and it is a gift to those who
read it and understand. You have clearly shown that you know nothing of this
book, and even less about the Spirit of God.
Having danced with spirits, you have become convinced that they are of God,
without having any evidence of that fact. Therefore, you are to be pitied more
than any other, for you follow what you know not, condemn what you know not,
and seek to mislead others to follow your errors.
No one can understand the Bible without the Holy Spirit. No one can understand
God without the Holy Spirit. No one can come to the Son without the Holy
Spirit.
The spirit that you follow is not the Holy Spirit, and is the spirit of
adversity against the Holy Spirit. You follow an abomination, and you will
suffer the penalty along with your master if you do not seek out the truth in
these matters. How long, oh horn, will you polute this place? How long will you
tread on the truth and vomit out what you are deceived by?
Follow false dreams, deceptive spirits. They seek one thing, your untimely end.
Not the end of your life, you serve them well, but the end of your soul.
Shudder, for you are being sealed with their lies, and misled by their
guidance, and you will suffer greatly if you do not abandon this folly. You are
approaching a time when you will no longer have hope, though that time has not
yet come, though in your certitude, you have destroyed all hope for yourself.
There is little more that I can warn you about, your blood is on your own head,
I have given you the warning that comes from my Lord. I will pray that you
consider the source, and the warning, and try to discern the truth of what has
been said. I would that you do not die.
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of
another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord
is able to make him stand."
You have spoken well for it is not I who judge you but yourself. If you
understood what I believe you would know that I reveal what you believe thus
are creating. It is just that you do not understand me until the veil is
removed you will not. And you cannot have it removed until you humble yourself
and come in through the door. Do you love me? Do you wish to understand me even
if it reveals things about you you do not like revealed. If my words are veiled
they are veiled to them that are perishing. For God does not judge another, you
judge yourself for you are God. I am the good news that you will not be judged
by another for I do not judge you your interpretation judges you. If you knew
God you would not have any fear of what I am saying, in fact you would jump for
joy over what is coming. Have you not noticed I am just as any
"stranger" you have met. I sound "strange" until you get to
KNOW me. Then I am your friend. Until you get to know the "stranger"
you have not fulfilled the "original intent" of the one you believe
you love. (Jesus) If Jesus (wildheart) was here you would deny him as well,
your interpretations of who he was would not allow you to see him. For your
fear is not that Jesus will be destroyed but that your denomination and
yourself will be destroyed. If you do not destroy your own beliefs now they
will be destroyed, for that was the original intent of "born again".
You must first remove "right" from your eye in order to see God. Is
God your denomination, or is God all things. Go to the most "strange"
amoung your denomination and learn from them, raise that one up and you may
have something worth pondering.
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-20-2002 at 10:51 PM
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
DNA,
Your mind is deluded. I know you well, I have been given glimpses of you that
you can not fathom.
Also, the only denomination that I am of is Christianity. You think you
understand, but your words prove otherwise.
One greater than me judges you, I have only warned you of your danger. Perhaps
this is one of the sources of your confusion.
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
When you finally do understand me you will see I
was your blessing. This spirit is what you prayed for. For what you wanted was
to be made new and once you have dealt with what is even now at the door you
will be completely changed. The condemnation you feel is not from me but your
own belief. Speak to me as you would a friend and you might begin to see me.
For I judge no one, I just show you how you are judging yourself. And I know
that many see this but would not admit it because they love being right. First
give up all that you have and gather the things of the heart that are not
learned from a book and then you will have something to keep eternally. And I
am judged by no man and have learned not even to judge myself. Do you know how
free that is. For this reason the spirit speaks "there is no condemnation
for those that are called according to the spirit" But the interpretation
that has lost the fizz has lost the spirit and their scripture shall become a
snare to them.
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
DNA,
Do you have a name, or are you so craven that you can not stand in the light?
You ask to be friend, and yet you come spreading words of vitriol and
bloodshed. My friends do not do such things.
You are given love, and you condemn it as judgement. Do you think that I would
spend my time sharing to the lost, what is meant for the saved? The Holy Spirit
is not a resource that should ever be spent lightly, and yet, He wishes for you
to hear my words.
Look upon the mirror that you cast your words upon, and see yourself within
them. Those who shout peace and yet thrust the sword are like Joab to Abner.
Your taint is thick, and I know it well. It is what twists the bowels and
nauseates the soul. Being familiar with such things, I sense it greater than
others, it was the stench that I wore like a perfume for greater than ten
years.
Ask your master about me. He knows me well. Dream your dreams to answer your
questions about me. Your master loaths the loss of me at his side and will send
many to bring me back to him. Your words right now are designed to flare up the
fleshly temper within me, and therefore convince you that your words are true.
It is you who stands to lose in this battle if you win, I am free from the
bonds of deceit win or lose.
I will ask you one question, that was uttered long ago by a greater servant
than I could ever be, "Will you not cease to make crooked the straight
ways of the Lord?" The rest of his words were harsher, though they apply.
In order to support the lies that you have received, you self justify them by
claiming that you are persecuted and judged, when this is not true. This feeds
your fire of self importance, and you are caught within a mobius of your own
device, spiralling into oblivion. Take my hand, let me lift you from this
place. You are too valuable to lose, just as we are all too valuable to lose.
If you would just search beyond what you think you know, if you just opened
your eyes to the words that I speak, the loss of your presence will change to
gain in the Heavens.
I am a sheepdog. I once was a wolf, but I have been domesticated by my Master.
I am commanded to help the sheep as best I can. Being once a wolf, I am not
confused with the ruses that they wield, and I will defend the sheep with my
life if need be. That will happen in the future.
Ask your master about me. He dones out power like a miser to his own, and it
may take you some time to search, though I am sure that he has some tricks up
his sleeve. Then perhaps you will know me better, and not have to grasp in the
dark for things that are not there.
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
My friends call me Stephen, my first name is Paul,
my second, Steven, my last name Spence, my spiritual name is Stephen Tree, my
name on this board is dnatree, but I have had many many more names before in
this life and another. Now the spirit has many names for his name is wonderful,
councelor, almighty God, but the names do not stop there for his name is also
heart, life, source, and ummm of course John, his hame is John, and what is
your nickname John?
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
Paul,
I really do not have any nicknames. I am usually called John, though my
students call me Mr. Green (not an easy thing for me to get used to). I have
been called many names that I will not repeat, though these were not names from
friends, and tend to be vulgar. 
I
have little need for other epitaths. Unless perhaps good servant, a title that
I hope to be given at the end by my Lord. You could call me scum, or trouble,
if you wish, though those names are shallow. Oh yeah, sometimes I call myself
nerd cubed (to the third power).
Thanks for sharing your name, if Paul offends (my intentions are to honor your
parents) then let me know. I can call you Steven if you prefer.
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
MessengerOfTrut
Senior
Member
Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Stone Mountain, GA
Posts: 269
...1...
You shall know them by thier fruits.
The Spirit which gives discernment to some ...
Whatsoever you lose on earth I will lose in Heaven. And whatsoever you bind on
earth i wil bind in Heaven.
It is the WORD that judges.
If someone is distorting the Word, then they are already judged. And that
judgment is sound and true.
__________________
Truth. It MUST be told.
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
The salt has lost it's savor
The salt has lost it’s savor
The spice has lost it’s flavor
The pie has lost it’s layers
The fizzy rootbeer as the oiginal intent (designed to be foolish that they may
be caught in their own snare)
Having gone into a shop and being served the real thing. It was so fizzy that
the bubbles were dancing on the top, the taste was so rich and layered. The burn was all the way to the belly! Now that was the original
intent of he who created “rootbeer”.
This is as the spirit in the time of Jesus.
Then once removed what is left is only a shadow, for the rootbeer has lost it’s
fizz. (for when the bridegroom was taken away is the first step in loosing
layers, the fizz, and spirit.)
Along came the “controllers” stealing the clothes from the bottom of the cross,
and duplicate the recipe. This is as a bad copy of a flat soda.
Then these same “controllers” duplicate this and put it out by the can. The can
further removed layers that made the now flat imitation further removed from
the original.
Then after drinking this many got sick and that became the norm.
They then took the yukky tasting mockery of the original intent in big plastic
containers further removing layers of the original intent. Now after this had
set for a long time on their table and many had gotten sick they then found it
necessary to make a law that all must drink the misinterpretation they placed
on the table. First remove the interpretations so that one drop of true fresh
water can sweeten the water again.You see it was not people that were to be
trodden under foot but the rotted interpretations that they demanded others
worship as God. For when the salt (interpretations) has lost it’s savor (layers
of meaning) then it becomes of no use but to be trodden under the foot of men.
Having found the "original intent" the self rightious say that it is
poison, though it's taste is sweet and it's meaning cut's to the marrow.
Instead they demand we drink the rotted scum of misinterpretation.
Without spirit you have only been snared by your own beliefs and others have
been judged by what you think you understand. For God had forknown your heart
and therefore he set a trap for you. In order that he might draw together those
two that have been separated by such as this. You and I. Is your desire to be
right greater than your desire to love and understand each
other. If so, your rightness will be made a snare to you.
I am your spirit, I am your life, I am the path you are on.
I am the fresh water
I am the fresh bread
Anyone that drinks this fresh water and taking one drop will be able to make
fresh that which was spoiled.
For the true bread was that bread that is leavoned by spirit, but the spoiled
bread is that that was leavoned by such as the pharasee's which by their
misinterpretation their spoiled bread became a snare to them.
Yes I am life, for life itself speaks
I am your life
I speak along your path
As once you believed and they taught you to fear the fall.
You believed all the more that I would catch you.
The voice that says "I may fall" is the child.
The voice that says I will catch you is spirit
Consider the gazzel that jumps from cliff to cliff, he has no fear blocking the
door between where he is at and where " I will catch you" And should
his foot slip, he again can be caught, and should he further slip another
chance and another so that if he then looses balance he falls on gold. (for
should I be in real danger, the miracle shows up at this point in believing )
For by having fear we draw the fall, but having the spirit of " I will
catch you" we learn to leap unhindered and unhesitated.
There is only "YOU and I"
For when you are with the one that loves you, it is I really loving you. And
when your friend is with you walking, it is I who walk with you. And whenever I
appear in the synchronicities fo the path, know it is I blessing you with the
gifts in the storehouse (dnatree) of your fathers who went before you.
There has always only been you and I my love
But the voice that says "watch out lest you ______(whatever fear)" Is
not your love and not your enemy. For you gather only the weightier things upon
your table. (heart, altar)
As good was once as far from bad, let what you love be only what you let on
your heart (altar) And that other, (things you thought were evil or did not
understand) be created for another time, or another reason. But then you will
not judge what is not on your heart.
When I was a child I was shown a rod. One end good and the other evil. When I
became a man I understood that one end was good and the other "for God's
good purpose, acceptable to God"
Then I found you (spirit, my life) and also found that one end of the rod was
now as those things on my altar were to be only what spirit has revealed and
all other things created for another time and another's creation. Therefore in
all things I find there is only "you and I". You see the child may
have heard or read of the path but the spirit of our father(s) is he who went
before us. Just as I wrote this on a rock out on the water at lake Tahoe a
young man that had swam to the shore asked if the path was up this way. I
pointed out what he could not see, for he had to go back into the dark cave in
order to see the hole to the left that lead to the continued path. In the same
manner they are veiled by what they think they see. For the water
(understanding) that is from spirit is that water which washes away the sand
revealing the TRUE FORM OF THE FATHERS Which
having been revealed I see the rod as I see all things made by God, the one end
as "my love, my life, the weightiest of good" and the other end as
good as God or (good) is in all things.
Childs
perception of the Rod
good_____________________________________bad
Adult
perception in past ages of the Rod
good_____________________________________acceptabl
e by God though I do not yet see the good in it.
Spirit's
revelation of the Rod (all things are God, and therefore good yet I may not
understand yet because I have not grown complete in spirit.
That which I love__________________________________good
So we see that as we grow in spirit that the bad is eventually brought across
the line into good as God is all and in all. So to judge one thing as bad is to
separate God from that, but to judge as God judges is to see God in all things.
To see the good, now even if I make a mistake in judging it is counted as good.
For I sat on a rock and wondered and you came to me. For a long time I thought
you were part of me, now I know that you are.
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-20-2002 at 01:10 AM
Pilgrim
Senior
Member
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Arcadia, ca usa
Posts: 554
Matt.5.13 "Ye are the salt of the earth, but
if the salt has lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted?-- '
Col.4.6 "Let your speech be always with grace - seasoned with salt, that
ye may know how ye ought to answer every man".
MessengerOfTrut
Senior
Member
Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Stone Mountain, GA
Posts: 269
CONTEXT
To those of you who may have read the first post
and said “What?”, allow me to simply the CONTEXT and the REALITY of the Scripture.
Paul didn’t use “dignified” or “difficult” speech … less the Gospel lost its
power … I can see why.
Jesus said, “Ye are the salt of the earth. What will happen to the world if the
salt losses it’s flavor? It CANNOT be resalted”.
Look around you. There are so many psuedo-Christian faiths in this world, and
they have done such terrible things in the name of Christianity, that the
people of the world think Christianity is a joke.
They’ve taken prayer and the Bible out of places that it has been for centuries.
Even people who go to church Sunday (or Saturday) after Sunday STILL are
clueless in the Word and live like demons during the week … THINKING they are
going to heaven.
“What will happen to the world if the salt loses its flavor?”
Take a look around. Crime at an all time high. Education at an all time low …
As Jesus said, there MUST be a “great falling away first.” That falling away is
a falling away from TRUTH and DOCTRINE.
“It CANNOT be resalted”.
True. For the world will NOT go back to trusting Christianity because of the
deeds that the false faiths have done … all in the name of “Christ”. They will
NOT go unpunished for they have misrepresented the Lords name!
There is your salt losing its flavor. It is the CHURCH that has fallen.
Powerless preaching.
Prosperity in the absence of repentance.
No warning of Hell.
Tickling people ears instead of telling them the TRUTH!
Woe be unto this generation to THIS IS the generation that forsakes the Lord …
and adds its’ demonic perceptions to His Word.
__________________
Truth. It MUST be told.
dmac5
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Registered: Jul 2002
Location:
Posts: 497
I sense a kindred spirit heh.
Pilgrim
Senior
Member
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Arcadia, ca usa
Posts: 554
1
Cor.11.19 "for there must also be heresies among you, that they which are
approved may be made manifest among you".
Pilgrim,
Those quotes of DNATREE were not quotes of dnatree.... where did you find them
and why are you saying they are my words. I am sure it is just a mistake as I
have read quotes within other writings and missed the actual writer.
(tliw/j5:26r11:9)
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-17-2002 at 07:59 AM
Pilgrim
Senior
Member
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Arcadia, ca usa
Posts: 554
quote:
Originally posted by DNATREE
Pilgrim,
Those quotes of DNATREE were not quotes of dnatree.... where did you find them
and why are you saying they are my words. I am sure it is just a mistake as I
have read quotes within other writings and missed the actual writer.
(tliw/j5:26r11:9)
Boy is my 
I
sort of forgot who I was talking to, Sorry for the error!
Glori
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Yes you did, I am a son of God and you have indeed
forgotten who you are talking to. Let me remind you.
(Before I went on my trip to tahoe this weekend to wonder in the spirit I
placed this in the last message here from me.
(tliw/j5:26r11:9)
It means "tliw=they lay in wait"
and the verses for those that worship them will be their own judgment as it is
written. as a man judges so shall he be judged. I have not judged you, you
have. :
3 Jeremiah 5:26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he
that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.
This is only half the equation of what was told to me concerning you.
The rest of it is Romans 11:9 Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and
a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Do you know what that means, that means that I don't have to fight you, For
salvation is of the lord not what I do here, I have already won. If you will
look back through the DNATREE posts you will see where others are doing this as
well.
For what they think they have will be taken from them.
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-19-2002 at 07:58 AM
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
Glori,
Prov. 12:13, 12:5.
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
Pilgrim
Senior
Member
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Arcadia, ca usa
Posts: 554
quote:
Originally posted by Witness
Glori,
Prov. 12:13, 12:5.
John
Ecc.12.11 with John 10.14 & 27;
Ecc.12.14 with John 9.39, 12.48
Pilgrim
Senior
Member
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Arcadia, ca usa
Posts: 554
quote:
Originally posted by DNATREE
Yes you did, I am a son of God and you have indeed forgotten who you are
talking to. Let me remind you.
(Before I went on my trip to tahoe this weekend to wonder in the spirit I
placed this in the last message here from me.
(tliw/j5:26r11:9) It means "tliw=they lay in
wait"
and the verses for those that worship them will be their own judgment as it is
written. as a man judges so shall he be judged. I have not judged you, you
have. :
3 Jeremiah 5:26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he
that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.
This is only half the equation of what was told to me concerning you.
The rest of it is Romans 11:9 Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and
a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Do you know what that means, that means that I don't have to fight you, For
salvation is of the lord not what I do here, I have already won. If you will
look back through the DNATREE posts you will see where others are doing this as
well.
For what they think they have will be taken from them.
NOw your post to me sounds like it is you that has confused me with someone
else. I have no clue what you are talking about here.
I surely know what "the snare" is, I studied Scripture until such
time that it was made clear. What do you think it is, and how in the world does
it apply to a person who only follows scripture in their doctrine?
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
I don't know what the intent of those that quoted
me wrong was but it seems as though they were trying to trap me because I
thought a quote of someones was Kens and was happy because it seemed as though
Ken's "intent of the heart" was better toward me, but I had judged
"well" of him wrongly... what was the intent of misquoting me. Please
explain because I must be missing a point that you have made and would like to
understand what you "really" are saying by misquoting me. If it was
to snare me then they have been snared by their own interpretation. But if it
is not then an explanation of why I was misquoted will help all of us. Now I
want you to consider that God would use unleavoned (unrespirited) scripture to
snare those that try to use the leavon of the pharasee's which is
misinterpretation by reason rather than spirit. Now I know there is a better
explanation that has not been given for why I was misquoted and then the
statement "Boy is my I
sort of forgot who I was talking to, Sorry for the error! ". If it was not
premeditated "snare" to catch me in an error then their must be
another explanation. I am waiting for that explanation. But if it was to catch
me then I have shown that scripture has caught them.
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Do you love me?
Paraphrased from many posts: (Does anybody
understand DNATREE? Can somebody please tell me what he is saying)
"you" understand me don't you,,, yes "you"
(written in the memory and spirit of Atheist Devine)
How bad do you want to understand them in the equation of "us and
them". Do you love them more than you love your interpretation of God. If
indeed you were to find that your interpretation was not God and then were to
look at a scale of wether you loved your interpretation more than you loved
them,,,, how would the scale read?
Those that love their interpretation that they collected unto themselves more
than they love "them" Do not love me. And if you do not love me you
can NEVER understand me. And if you do not know (understand) me you will not
understand them. You then live separated believing them evil but all the time
you will be manefesting greater evil in your separation. If you misunderstand
the least of "them" you have misunderstood me. Go back and see me in
them then returning you will see who I am.
And if you do not know me, how can I say I ever knew you?
Apart from a lack of scripture in my writing is this truth?
Is it not truth because it reveals something you don't want to see?
Can we agree on one point here?
Is your desire to be "right" making you feel I have to be proven
wrong?
If this is truth, how would you intend change?
If we do see how we are persecuting "them" how can we better relate
the message of Jesus to include "them" since we cannot see the true
"intent of their heart" and therefore know that we are wrong in
Judgeing "them"?
It is not for "them" (that don't understand me) that I post here you
know. It is for "you", it has always only been for "you"
It's love across time, get ready for the ride.....
Quote from Lewis C. Spence (father, inventor, mentor) "The priests say
that they had coffee and donuts with God and so now they know better"
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-14-2002 at 11:03 PM
DNATREE
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Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Since he is gone I would like to post what he
placed elsewhere as it is what I speak of here.
(Copied from Atheist Devine's post in prayer section)
Some prayers you might like...
I was reading a book the other day, and saw some prayers you might like First
time I've ever been in this bit of the forum.
These are all from Prayers of Life by Michel Quoist:
Son, I beseech you, don't sleep any more
"I shall be in agony till the end of time," God says.
I shall be crucified till the end of time.
My sons the Christians don't seem to realise it.
I am scourged, buffeted, stretched out, crucified. I die in front of them and
they don't know it, they see nothing, they are blind.
They are not true Christians, or they would not go on living while I am dying.
Lord, I don't understand; it is not possible; you exaggerate.
I would defend you if you were attacked.
I would be at your side if you were dying.
Lord, I love you!
That is not true, God says. Men are deluding themselves.
They say they love me, they believe they love me, and, as I am willing to
admit, they are often sincere, but they are terribly mistaken. They do not
understand, they do not see.
Slowly everything has been distorted, dried up, emptied.
They think they love me because once a month they honour my Sacred Heart.
As if I loved them only twelve times a year!
They think they love me because they keep to their devotions regularly, attend
a benediction, eat fish on Fridays, burn a candle or say a prayer before a
picture of my Sacred Heart
But I am not made of plaster, God says, nor of stone nor of bronze.
I am living flesh, throbbing, suffering.
I am among men, and they have not recognised me.
I am poorly paid, I am unemployed, I live in a slum, I have tuberculosis, I
sleep under bridges, I am in prison, I am oppressed, I am patronised.
And yet I said to them: "Whatever you do to my brothers, however humble,
you do to me"...Thats clear.
The worst is that they know it, but that they don't take it seriously.
They have broken my heart, God says, and I have waited for someone to have pity
on me, but no one has.
I am cold, God says, I am hungry, I am naked.
I am imprisoned, laughed at, humiliated.
But this is a minor passion, for men have invented more terrible ordeals.
Armed with their liberty, formidably armed with their liberty,
They have invented...
"Father, forgive them; they do not know what they are doing."
They have invented war, true war.
And they have invented the Passion.
For I am everywhere that men are, God says,
Since the day when I slipped among them, on a mission, to save them all.
Since the day when I definitely committed myself to trying to gather them together.
Now I am rich and I am poor, a workman and a boss.
I am a Union member and a non-Union member, a striker and a strike-breaker, for
men, alas! make me do all kinds of things.
I am on the side of the demonstrators and on the side of the police, for men,
alas! transform me into a policeman.
I am a leftist, a rightist and even in the centre.
I am this side of the Iron Curtain and beyond.
I am a German and a Frenchman, a Russian and an American,
A Chinese from Nationalist China and one from Communist China,
I am from Vietnam and from Vietminh.
I am everywhere men are, God says.
They have accepted me, they possess me, the traitors!
Hail, Master!
And now I am with them, one of them, their very selves.
Now, see what they have done to me...
They are scourging me, crucifying me,
They tear me apart when they kill one another.
Men have invented war...
I jump on mines, I gasp my last breath in foxholes,
I moan, riddled with shrapnel; I collapse under the volley of machine-gun fire,
I sweat men's blood on all battlefields,
I cry out in the night and die in the solitude of battle.
O world of strife, immense cross on which, every day, men stretch me.
Wasn't the wood of Golgotha enough?
Was this immense altar necessary for my sacrifice of love?
While around me, men keep on shouting, singing, dancing, and, as if insane,
crucify me in an enormous burst of laughter.
Lord, enough! Have pity on me!
Not that! it isn't I!
Yes, son, it is you.
You, and your brothers, for
several blows are needed to drive in a nail,
several lashes are needed to furrow a shoulder,
several thorns are needed to make a crown,
and you belong to the humanity that all together condemns
me.
It matters not whether you are among those who hit or among those who watch,
among those who perform or among those who let it happen.
You are all guilty, actors and spectators.
But above all, son, don't be one of those who are asleep, one of those who can
still fall asleep...in peace. Sleep!
Sleep is terrible!
"Can you not watch one hour with me?"
On your knees, son! Do you not hear the roar of battle?
The bell is ringing,
Mass is starting,
God is dying for you, crucified by men.
I like youngsters
God says: I like youngsters. I want people to be like them.
I don't like old people unless they are still children.
I want only children in my kingdom; this has been decreed from the beginning of
time.
Youngsters - twisted, humped, wrinkled, white-bearded - all kinds of
youngsters, but youngsters.
There is no changing it, it has been decided, there is room for no one else.
I like little children because my likeness has not yet been dulled in them.
They have not blotched my likeness, they are new, pure, without a blot, without
a smear.
So, when I gently lean over them, I recognise myself in them.
I like them because they are still growing, they are still improving.
They are on the road, they are on their way.
But with grown-ups there is nothing to expect any more.
They will no longer grow, no longer improve.
They have come to a full stop.
It is disastrous - grown-ups think they have arrived.
I like youngsters because they are still struggling, because they are still
sinning.
Not because they sin - if you understand me - but because they know that they
sin, and they say so, and they try not to sin any more.
But I don't like grown-ups, they never harm anyone, they have nothing to
reproach themselves for.
I can't forgive them, I have nothing to forgive.
It is a pity, it is indeed a pity, because it is not true.
But above all, I like youngsters because of the look in their eyes. In their
eyes I can read their age.
In my heaven, there will be only five-year-old eyes, for I know of nothing more
beautiful than the pure eyes of a child.
It is not surprising, for I live in children, and it is I who look out through
their eyes
When pure eyes meet yours it is I who smile at you through the flesh.
But on the other hand, I know of nothing sadder than lifeless eyes in the face
of a child.
The windows are open, but the house is empty.
Two eyes are there, but no light.
And, saddened, I stand at the door, and wait in the cold and knock. I am eager
to get in.
And he, the child, is alone.
He fattens, he hardens, he dries up, he gets old. Poor old fellow!
Alleluia! Alleluia! Open, all of you, little old men!
It is I, your God, the Eternal, risen from the dead, coming to bring back to
life the child in you.
Hurry! Now is the time. I am ready to give you again the beautiful face of a
child, the beautiful eyes of a child...
For I love youngsters, and I want everyone to be like them.
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
DNA,
To answer your question as honestly as I can. Yes, I love you.
Does this mean that I accept you. No, it does not.
My love for you embodies my concern for you. I know where you are, I have been
there and beyond. Do I wish for you to suffer as I have, or to regret as I do.
No way! How could I claim to love you and desire that?!
You believe what you believe, and you are convinced that you are in a good
place. Out of love, I must warn you that you are not. Security is only a good
thing when security is true.
So if it appears that my concerns, my fears for you come from a source of
dislike or hate, then you do not know the heart that now speaks to you. I hate
him who has misled you. I dislike the pain that you will suffer. If I could, I
would grab your hand and pull you from danger, but that is not mine to give or
take. So all I can do out of love is warn you, exhort you, pray for you. The
hands that can save you from your current path are greater than mine, and it is
His will that shapes your fate.
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
I know I am to be seen by some as a wolf in sheeps
clothing but I also know that even if I am rejected here that:
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the
builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the
Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Do you think this has changed, do you think that it only speaks of Jesus for it
says that the builders always choose the wrong stone and the children of the
builders believe it is the "right" stone.
Atheist Devine was not wrong, sure he was not complete in his understanding but
who amoung you are? I have been rejected by all men, does that make me a liar
in God's eyes, no quite the opposite?
And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be
rejected of the elders,(who might they be speaking of within this generation)
and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, (am I any better than he)
I am here to speak what I was killed for speaking before.
Now as christians love to say,,,, I know you are sincere "witness"
but you are also sincerily wrong. Not that Atheist Devine was comeplete but
neither are you and if you do not learn from him even what you think you have
WILL be taken away from you.
I know the spirit could have spoken to this generation without christianity, I
have limited myself to speak from this perspective for all things are of God,
but if you do not learn from these what you think you have learned WILL be
taken from you. I have spent my life learning what you believe and what they
believe but I tell you it is rubbish compared to what spirit has to offer.
Forget what you think you know or it will be taken from you.
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
DNA,
Once again you dare judge me without knowing me.
Is this of the Spirit?
spirit does not equal Spirit.
You believe yourself to be equal to my Lord, and yet you are not. Is this
truth?
Atheist Divine (if you care enough, perhaps you should consider your spelling)
I consider a good and intelligent friend. I still contact him through e-mail.
It is not him that I am concerned about, it is you. You are trapped in your own
conviction of truth, believing spirits who are not led by the Father. Being
blind, you claim sight. Rejecting wisdom, you claim that you are wise.
Why not point your words at yourself and see how they may fit? I have never
claimed completeness or fullness. That will be given to me when I am fully
known, and fully know. Until that time, I seek to be my Father's servant. There
is no greater thing to be.
You are enslaved by those you call spirits. You are convinced that they bring
truth, and yet your posts show just how untrue they are.
Ask yourself this question. Why does my concern for you anger you? You claim to
know love, but are angered by my love for you. This is not from God.
The only benefit that you will receive from where you are at now, is that if
the Holy Spirit really does enter you, teach you the truth of Christ, and cause
you to repent, then you will be able to glorify God in a very large way for
releasing you from your bondage. But then you would lose your power. Humility
is a difficult pill to swallow, and admitting error is a goad to those who love
themselves.
How is it that I know you fully? How is it that I know who you follow and the
things you think are true. If you were not in the shoes that I once wore, then
I would be oblivious to your guides. Could it be possible that there is a
greater truth than the one you embrace?
You are following an easy path, and you wish others to follow. The hard road to
this earth is the only choice that one should make, but it is not as attractive
to the sight. Reject power, and the machinations of spirits, set aside
arrogance and false love, search for the truth and that hole that exists within
you will be filled. If you have not seen that hole (you have, but you ignore
it) you would realize that nothing you do will fill that hole. Not even the
spirits that lead your dreams.
God has made the world, and all in it, but others can use that good for harm.
Just because it is a creation from a good God, does not mean that others can
not use it for evil. Not all is good, not all are saved, and narrow is the road
that leads to the New Jerusalem. No thief shall enter her.
For you a glimpse of what you are caught in. I would call it a gift, but it
could only be called that if you received it for what it is. Nevertheless,
perhaps you will be given sight. Rev. 9:20-21.
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Shame, blame, separation (sin)
war, death, fruit of tree of K G&E
The fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and
Evil is Shame, blame, Separation, war, death
Therefore what we thought would civilize us will in fact create greater
separation and destruction than having only the law of (spirit) heart and
nature.
Wealth blinds the eyes of the controllers and motivates them to create a system
to protect wealth. Wealth believes itself to be wisdom in that the
decietfullness of riches motivates the wealthy to empower one system of law or
another which is how riches are gaurded. (choose an idol that they give power
to by the wealth to control others that might threaten that wealth.) It is
believed that such wealth cannot exist without such a system to uphold it.
It was written for the understanding of the masses that were believing in many
things that "ye shall have no idols, or the work of your hands you shall
not worship" For it was known in ages past what happened when an object
(idol, book, understanding) was "lifted up" to worship above what is
revealed by your own life that the priests like kings would loose the original
spirit and intent causing many through the "INTERPRETATIONS" to fall
into bondage to what at one time was understood but only a shell remained.
We think to be lawless is bad, and indeed it would be for the fearful for what
you allow in your temple is what you draw near. But nothing will compare to the
evil done by the fruit of the knowledge of Good and Evil which religion always
resurects as the weightiest understanding. But those of the spirit are drawn
away from the decietfulness of such teaching (which only leads to separation
and war and death) and are drawn by the power of the heart to that which they
love. Focusing on the joy present in the moment and the treasures that spirit
reveals. While spirit speaks little of the things the world tells you are
important. (such as good and evil) Here is the snare of the "self
rightious".
By using the system of thinking that Jesus did, you can see how concentraiting
on the weightier aspects of love, and treasures of spirit rather than the law,
and what is good and what is evil, would lead one to a life that is sanctified
to spirit and peace and joy reigns. Not a peace as the world offers, but the
peace that passes all such understanding as they would have you to worship.
revleonard
Moderator
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Lynwood, Ca
Posts: 1624
Re: Shame, blame, separation
(sin) war, death, fruit of tree of K G&E
quote:
Originally posted by DNATREE
The fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil is Shame,
blame, Separation, war, death
Therefore what we thought would civilize us will in fact create greater
separation and destruction than having only the law of (spirit) heart and
nature.
Wealth blinds the eyes of the controllers and motivates them to create a system
to protect wealth. Wealth believes itself to be wisdom in that the
decietfullness of riches motivates the wealthy to empower one system of law or
another which is how riches are gaurded. (choose an idol that they give power
to by the wealth to control others that might threaten that wealth.) It is
believed that such wealth cannot exist without such a system to uphold it.
It was written for the understanding of the masses that were believing in many
things that "ye shall have no idols, or the work of your hands you shall
not worship" For it was known in ages past what happened when an object
(idol, book, understanding) was "lifted up" to worship above what is
revealed by your own life that the priests like kings would loose the original
spirit and intent causing many through the "INTERPRETATIONS" to fall
into bondage to what at one time was understood but only a shell remained.
We think to be lawless is bad, and indeed it would be for the fearful for what
you allow in your temple is what you draw near. But nothing will compare to the
evil done by the fruit of the knowledge of Good and Evil which religion always
resurects as the weightiest understanding. But those of the spirit are drawn
away from the decietfulness of such teaching (which only leads to separation
and war and death) and are drawn by the power of the heart to that which they
love. Focusing on the joy present in the moment and the treasures that spirit
reveals. While spirit speaks little of the things the world tells you are
important. (such as good and evil) Here is the snare of the "self
rightious".
By using the system of thinking that Jesus did, you can see how concentraiting
on the weightier aspects of love, and treasures of spirit rather than the law,
and what is good and what is evil, would lead one to a life that is sanctified
to spirit and peace and joy reigns. Not a peace as the world offers, but the
peace that passes all such understanding as they would have you to worship.
__________________
May God Bless.
When it comes to my faith, I am neither Protestant nor Catholic,
Pentecostal, nor Baptist, Charismatic, nor Christadelphian; Calvinist, nor any
other denomination. I am an equal opportunity believer. I believe the bible
every opportunity I get. If you advocate it, and I can find it in the Bible: On
that particular issue; that is what denomination I am. If I cannot find it,
then I am some other denomination.
Theology
Forums is fun.. 
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
DNA and Rev, I have been asked by a dear friend,
whom I have not seen in some time, to pass the following message on to you
both.
Kata says;
I too am reaching for the Vitale element, such that my hair can reach the
divine perfection known as "D i c k Clarkianism", who, to him who has
ears, let him hear; and let him prove his wisdom by speaking with a Cajun
accent, that the wise one known as “The Waterboy’s mother” says that this D i c
k Clarkiansim or the manifestation thereof, is actually “the devil”. But here
we speak of only the spiritual manifestation of the perfection known as “his
hair”. In this way, by emulating and adopting Clarkianism, the perfection of
my, and, if you are wise, your hair, will be able to withstand torrential rains
and 60 mile an hour gusts of wind. And yet, as the teacher as said, be unmoved
by the storms of life, and will remain in place even during the song “the name
game”, and yet, all this will remain to be above all interpretations.
And while many, who are blinded by the truly evil one: Rogaine, will think
themselves free, it is only those whose hair and spirit have followed the
spirit and not the mere interpretation of Clarkianism whose hair, while defying
all natural laws proves itself to be truly free. For by the formless form of
its rigid fluidness, it is thereby revealing its supernatural origin, which is
of course, all the proof one needs for the veracity of all my claims. For that
which was written for the people to have and gain knowledge by virtue of its
being written and naturally, interpreted, actually was not meant to be read and
interpreted at all. This is a great mystery that only I, Kata, will be able to
explain by the art of non-interpretation. And yet I will do this justifying of
my explanations by my wholly, and thereby holy, unverifiable claims that this
is what Jesus Himself actually meant in His teachings. For no one can ever
really interpret the claims of my non-interpretations of Jesus’ claims and
teachings, for in doing so, they will have interpreted, and this is not to be
permitted.
We begin by moving through the roots of my D i c k Clarkian hair, then to my
physical body, which is thus also furthered on towards the remarkably blissful
state of joining the cosmic unconsciousness sometimes known as "the Jerry
Springer Show". These two states, i.e. "Clarkianism" and
"cosmic unconsciousness" match perfectly with the only two angels
mentioned by name in the Bible, Gabriel and Michael, which represent only that
which I say they represent, and nothing more, though perhaps, far far less. And
all others who speak differently or contrary to me are relying on the evil
sprays containing chemicals harmful to the ozone layer, thus proving their
deceitfulness.
Now Gabriel as messenger corresponds to cosmic unconsciousness by delivery of
the unutterable message
quote:
" "
.
And Michael relates to Clarkianism by the warring factions in the world and
above it, by the shaking tumult known as the “rate-a-record” conflict. Thus
when the combination of these divine principles, i.e. when the unutterable “ “
corresponds with the “I give it a 10, its really danceable”, this shows that
our striving towards the perfection of immediate wish fulfillment is near
completion. Now this rare cosmic event, when spoken of and clothed in pseudo
spiritual language, and if said in the right intonation of voice, perhaps with
bongos playing softly and slowly in the background over Mike Meyers poem
“Woman, Whoa man”, will impress upon the open minded, intellectually elite, and
hopefully the financially affluent, the reality and the creation of our own
destinies by virtue of saying that the “Spirit” allows us to interpret that
which we desire.
Caution:
****Importantly we must adamantly immediately state, yet without being
overly dogmatic and politically incorrect by being accused of being bigoted and
narrow minded, we must NOT actually “interpret” and certainly never use the
word “interpretation” or “interpret” for ourselves or anything we ever say, for
indeed, we actually engage in non-interpretation in everything we say,
write or think ---- giving us the freedom for the creation of many different
realities by using the words in the Scriptures to suit our fertile imaginations
and thereby simultaneously creating our own inner sanctum.*****
Whereby we may at last hear the deafening sound of one hand clapping, as this
reality overtakes the world, which, conveniently enough, we have ourselves
created. For we, like God, create the realities in which we live by speaking
into existence the reality we prefer at any given moment by appealing to and
yet at the same time denying the Words of the Scriptures, while ingesting large
amounts of Prozac and Haladol.
However, and unfortunately in some cases, many of those who can speak into
reality their own reality have failed to do so. And even more unfortunately,
some have even had the audacity to attempt to speak into existence realities,
interpretations, and even the sacred non-interopretations which are contrary to
my own, in which I was instructed by the other voices in my inner sanctum to
immediately prevent any further occurrences of this blasphemous universe
altering manifestation of unhipness by the simple servile act of presenting
them a special blend of Kool-Aid.
Thus, for those not speaking into existence a reality that might be reasonably
similar to my own, or at least, one that I would judge to be acceptable even if
it might deviate from the perfection of my own in some minor ways, I would say
to "boldly speak forth that which you will", and hope for your own
sakes that it goes well with you if I fail to concur with your reality.
Then for those failing to speak into reality a reality that could be their
reality, they unwittingly err and allow a reality to come into non-being
resulting from their failure. For even if a reality is not called into
existence, a reality or non-reality from the cosmic unconsciousness or the Last
Train to Clarksville inevitably seeks to fill the void. They thus non-speak into
reality a reality that differs from THE reality (i.e. mine), which is in
reality, no reality at all, unless you allow for non-Clarkian realities, which
is not really that wise. This then thwarts the will of the Unthwartable One,
which causes the One who has no need of anything to have need, and by needing
and not needing, one realizes finally, the key to all knowledge; namely “ “
Kata, the bellybuttonlintless One-- who fully realizes that belly button lint
is not Toejam.
You have been blessed.
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
I will have to go back and finish reading it Ken
but that was even funnier than when you did it the first time. We have not
finished laughing. (Seriously, not laughing seriously, but seriously none the
less.)
(Gone reading Ken's message)
(returned)
Wow you thought up all that for me Ken, Well I am touched """but
you knew that didn't you"""))))))LOL
What's really unusual is the bald synchronicity I have been having. Ummmm I
haven't figured out what it means yet. But if it is from me I would that it be
a blessing.
Here's to believing that you and I (on this planet too) can see face to face
soon.
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-09-2002 at 09:11 AM
revleonard
Moderator
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Lynwood, Ca
Posts: 1624
quote:
Originally posted by Ken
DNA and Rev, I have been asked by a dear friend, whom I have not seen in
some time, to pass the following message on to you both.
Kata, the bellybuttonlintless One-- who fully realizes that belly button lint
is not Toejam.
You have been blessed.
Tell your friend that i said. \o/ \o/ \o/
Belly button lint, huh? Taste like Chicken.
Did you write this ken, huh.? Did ya, huh. Huh, huh, huh?
\o/
My problem is i understood it. (he he)
__________________
May God Bless.
When it comes to my faith, I am neither Protestant nor Catholic,
Pentecostal, nor Baptist, Charismatic, nor Christadelphian; Calvinist, nor any
other denomination. I am an equal opportunity believer. I believe the bible
every opportunity I get. If you advocate it, and I can find it in the Bible: On
that particular issue; that is what denomination I am. If I cannot find it,
then I am some other denomination.
Theology
Forums is fun..
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
I really don't like other people knowing that Kata
is an alias of mine, but since this is a private conversation, I think I can
safely tell you that it is I, he is I, and together, we are them, or, maybe
us.........
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
Yes DNA, I did partly write it for you, and am
aware that you have been touched and, like myself, are "touched", and
are in the process of being touched.... whist all the while trying to keep in
mind our private cultural personal spaces and not allowing ourselves, be they
inner or outer selves and/or inner or outer bellybuttons, any violation of the
said spaces, yet all the while insisting on this seperation amidst our unity.
(that was Kata again.. the problem is shutting him up once he gets started,
kinda like the donkey from Shrek... now you know why I do not invite him into
the conversation very often... I am kicking him out again right now....) 
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Off the funny subject I would like to say something
that may be misunderstood along with everything else I have said being
misunderstood because that is the nature of such undertakings. (it was
appointed that the whole world would reject him (misunderstand him) and then
the end would come... speaking of Jesus of course.)
It is not riches that is the problem, it is the intent of the heart along with having
such influence that riches affords.
(you have to limit yourself and your way of speaking to communicate with
christian forums, for their sakes. Because if you go out speaking in scientific
terms they will not hear you. They will really misread you then. So you break
the formula down into parts that their LANGUAGE can understand. If I were
speaking to historians I would approach it differently.)
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-09-2002 at 10:09 PM
revleonard
Moderator
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Lynwood, Ca
Posts: 1624
quote:
Originally posted by DNATREE
Off the funny subject I would like to say something that may be
misunderstood along with everything else I have said being misunderstood
because that is the nature of such undertakings. (it was appointed that the
whole world would reject him (misunderstand him) and then the end would come...
speaking of Jesus of course.)
It is not riches that is the problem, it is the intent of the heart along with
having such influence that riches affords.
(you have to limit yourself and your way of speaking to communicate with
christian forums, for their sakes. Because if you go out speaking in scientific
terms they will not hear you. They will really misread you then. So you break
the formula down into parts that their LANGUAGE can understand. If I were
speaking to historians I would approach it differently.)
I'ma historean, i think.
__________________
May God Bless.
When it comes to my faith, I am neither Protestant nor Catholic,
Pentecostal, nor Baptist, Charismatic, nor Christadelphian; Calvinist, nor any
other denomination. I am an equal opportunity believer. I believe the bible
every opportunity I get. If you advocate it, and I can find it in the Bible: On
that particular issue; that is what denomination I am. If I cannot find it,
then I am some other denomination.
Theology
Forums is fun..
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
Great observation DNA, so when will you go ahead
and limit/break down everything into parts of our (their) language so we can
understand you?
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Who said it is I that will do that, for the seed
spewers are itchin to spew and when you meet thousands like me (as the fruit
comes out on the tree) you will see it is the work of spirit not Stephentree. I
am just the bud on the appletree telling of fruit to come. Basically you have
not seen anything yet compared to what is coming in the hearts of man. For I am
here to watch this tender leaf grow but it is not my work but he who sends me.
You see the spirit has changed even on this board in the past few months and
branches are forming where the smallest of thoughts began. Like what starts a
pearl is very small, the ______ that starts a rose on a vine is very small,
what it is that chooses where a branch willl grow is very small and what starts
a tree to grow is very small. So small in fact that it was overlooked by the
"interpretations."
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
Darn it! I hate it when that happens.....
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
revleonard
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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Lynwood, Ca
Posts: 1624
I just wish i knew what happened.
Why does he keep doing that?????
__________________
May God Bless.
When it comes to my faith, I am neither Protestant nor Catholic,
Pentecostal, nor Baptist, Charismatic, nor Christadelphian; Calvinist, nor any
other denomination. I am an equal opportunity believer. I believe the bible
every opportunity I get. If you advocate it, and I can find it in the Bible: On
that particular issue; that is what denomination I am. If I cannot find it,
then I am some other denomination.
Theology
Forums is fun..
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
I believe that this is for others on this forum and
that my answer to you can be found in more recent posts you can get to by using
this link www.stephentree.com/other.htm
click on the theology forums link and the posts from today and yesterday should
be easily found because I am answering you both in these recent posts.
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
REV ROFLOL!!!!! You crack me up!!!!! Often I do not
know what happens in conversations (may I use that word?) with DNA either. My
"darn it, I hate when that happens" was in response to DNA's saying
that I was a "seed sower itchin to spew" and that in my
"interpretations" I was overlooking the pearl, the rose bud, the bud
on the apple tree, etc. and in overlooking these things, I am oblivious to the
true working of God. So I say again, "darn it, I hate it when that
happens....." 
Blessings
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
Help me out here DNA, if
youse can…. You had originally said
quote:
(you have to limit yourself and
your way of speaking to communicate with christian forums, for their sakes.
Because if you go out speaking in scientific terms they will not hear you. They
will really misread you then. So you break the formula down into parts that
their LANGUAGE can understand. If I were speaking to historians I would
approach it differently.)
So I asked you to help me by breaking your thoughts down into language I could
understand (for my sake), a serious attempt at real communication with you I
might add. But then you say
quote:
Who said it is I that will do
that, for the seed spewers are itchin to spew and when you meet thousands like
me (as the fruit comes out on the tree) you will see it is the work of spirit
not Stephentree.
So on the one hand you say that you will adjust your writing style to suit the
audience, and yet when I ask you do to so, you act surprised that I would
expect you to be the one the do the very thing you suggested be done in order
to facilitate communication!
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
revleonard
Moderator
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Lynwood, Ca
Posts: 1624
quote:
Originally posted by Ken
REV ROFLOL!!!!! You crack me up!!!!! Often I do not know what happens in conversations
(may I use that word?) with DNA either. My "darn it, I hate when that
happens" was in response to DNA's saying that I was a "seed sower
itchin to spew" and that in my "interpretations" I was
overlooking the pearl, the rose bud, the bud on the apple tree, etc. and in
overlooking these things, I am oblivious to the true working of God. So I say
again, "darn it, I hate it when that happens....."
Blessings
Whew!!! If it's happening to you, then i must be ok. All those buds.
My mom taught us not to waste, back in the 60's we would eat the apples and
smoke the tree.
Thought it was catching up to me.....
__________________
May God Bless.
When it comes to my faith, I am neither Protestant nor Catholic,
Pentecostal, nor Baptist, Charismatic, nor Christadelphian; Calvinist, nor any
other denomination. I am an equal opportunity believer. I believe the bible
every opportunity I get. If you advocate it, and I can find it in the Bible: On
that particular issue; that is what denomination I am. If I cannot find it,
then I am some other denomination.
Theology
Forums is fun..
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Ken,
Do you really want to understand me Ken ?????????
because your intent appears (because of the fruit of the intent which cannot be
hidden) that you do not want to understand but that you want to prove
something. First answer me this,,,, out of all you have listened to and read
from me, do you agree with one thing that you did not already understand, and
if so what is it? That is where you and I should begin our mutual intent. And
our mutual intent should be to the same end or I am waisting my time. Your
humor in the face of your difficulty is of great service to you, I believe that
is your greatest strength, I would not stray from that even when I feel
overcome, REACT to all difficulties as you often do from that SPIRIT.
Step one:
If a man's heart is set against another man they will never see face to face.
(they will never share in the spirit) But if that man goes to his heart first
and changes it's intention about who he is seeing, then he would be able to see
clearly the same words that before he could not see. Ok there is step one if
you really want to understand me, do you believe in step one, because without
step one there is no step two. In order to have step one you would have to
believe that God was in them, all of them including yourself. For you are not
listening to their words but you are looking unto the spirit. When you have
believed step one unto repentance and do see your God in them,,, all of them,,,
then you will BEGIN to see all men face to face. If you do not believe step one
then there is not step two.
You have heard the song "open your heart to me, I have the lock and you
have the key" Without an open heart toward a spirit or person you cannot
connect. Even if you say the same thing only using scripture.
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-15-2002 at 08:32 AM
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
DNA, its not as if I have to have ever agreed with
you or disagreed with you on any given subject in order for me to point out
what appears to be a contradiction in your writing, Do you see that? So I would
respectfully ask you to address the question I have regarding the apparent
contradiction, and not give a red herring of come sort to divert us from my
original respectful and legitimate question. I hope you do not feel that you
above being asked these sorts of things. I mean, aren’t I, as a believer, to
test all things, to prove all things, to test the spirits? Would you have me be
disobedient to this?
Secondly, if I take the trouble to write to you, then it is probably to prove
something. Now this is not necessarily either good or bad, for I could be
trying to prove why I agree with you and why I believe that both you and I are
correct in thinking “X”, or why I disagree and giving you the courtesy of
spending the time to try and show you why it is I disagree. You owe me the same
effort to show me my error, if I am wrong. And neither is agreeing or disagreeing
themselves inherently bad or a proof of my heart “being against you”. People
who care a great deal for one another can and do disagree. Besides, aren’t you
trying to prove something to me when you write “Your humor in the face of your
difficulty is of great service to you, I believe that is your greatest
strength, I would not stray from that even when I feel overcome,”? Of course
you are. So again, how could you criticize me when you do the very same thing?
I just do not understand.
Thirdly it strikes me as rather odd that simply because I see a discrepancy in
your writing, and then point it out, that you would assume that my heart is
against you. Did Jesus not point out discrepancies and errors in the disciple’s
thoughts? Of course. Does this mean His heart was against them? Of course not.
Fourthly, there have things I have agreed with you on, but I cannot recall
whether these things were new revelations from you, or were things that I had
already thought to be true. But again, my heart is not necessarily against you
if I have never been taught by you, that simply does not follow.
Fifthly, you write “REACT to all difficulties as you often do from that
SPIRIT.”
How can you assume or know with certainty that I do not always react in
the same spirit?
Sixthly you write “In order to have step one you would have to believe that God
was in them, all of them including yourself.”
How could you ask me to do such a thing?!?!? I can never presume to know that
God is in everyone. Indeed the Bible is clear that God is indeed NOT in
everyone. Why would you even ask me to be disobedient to God by assuming this?
Seventhly you write “When you have believed step one unto repentance and do see
your God in them,,, all of them,,, then you will BEGIN to see all men face to
face. If you do not believe step one then there is not step two.”
What this amounts to DNA is that you are asking me to repent, and then aprori
agree with you, so that I can then agree with you, or as you might put it “see
God in you” or that “my heart is not set against you”. But this is very
obviously circularity DNA. Its to to say “Ken, you must first see God in me and
know that I speak truth, I DNA speak what the Spirit says. Thus you should
agree with my non-interpretations and spiritual wisdom. Why? Well because you
must see God in me and know that I speak truth, that I speak what the spirit
says.” !
Eighthly, you say “But if that man goes to his heart first and changes it's
intention about who he is seeing, then he would be able to see clearly the same
words that before he could not see.”
But why suppose this DNA? Why not suppose that it is actually you who needs to
go to your heart, change its intention about who you are seeing, so that you
would then be able to see clearly the same words that you could not before see?
Lastly, you write, “You have heard the song "open your heart to me, I have
the lock and you have the key" Without an open heart toward a spirit or
person you cannot connect. Even if you say the same thing only using scripture.”
No, I do not think I have ever heard that song. Who sings it?
Anyway, why suppose that my heart is not open simply because I might disagree
with you? Perhaps your heart is not open to correction because you have never
once admitted to an error you have committed, or agreed that you needed to
change your mind about something. Perhaps there is some changing that needs to
go on in your heart so that you can connect with me?
Blessings
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
I was reffering to others like me, the words not
the same but the spirit will be when I spoke of seed spewers. And I was
reffering to the fact that you have overlooked what you know was correct in my
writing to find the gnat. Having never spoken of the good that I spoke rather
your tendency was only to find the gnat wether by misinterpretation or
whatever. For this reason I have not believed your intent is to understand the
first point but only find the gnat.
Originally posted by Ken.
(Thirdly it strikes me as rather odd that simply because I see a discrepancy in
your writing, and then point it out, that you would assume that my heart is
against you.)
Your fifth point was also a misinterpretation for I was saying that if you can
it would be great to always react like that. (As when bad things happen
"jump for joy" in order that the spirit of joy be the reaction or
answer to the difficulty. I know how hard it is to react that way when you are
in a bad space. I was not saying that you did not rather I was praising you for
that spirit and encouraging you to use it ALWAYS. You misinterpreted me.
(Originally posted by Ken:How can you assume or know with certainty that I do
not always react in the same spirit?) What could make you misinterpret such an
obvious intent on my part. What word did I imply you did not use it always and
that I had any other intent? I was noting your strengh in always reacting with
that spirit.. commending you! That is the opposite of how you took what I said.
The question with step one...(Originally posted by Ken: I can never presume to
know that God is in everyone. ) I am sorry if your interpretation forbids
however God is all and in all as scripture alludes for he is even in a donkey
should God determine to speak through a donkey. Are you saying that God can be
in a donkey but not in a beggar muttering supposed nonsense. Having been
brought to my knees by spirit on this point I know that you are wrong, God is
in them, and it is God that speaks even through Bin Laden and Bush though they
believe themselves separate. Having heard the voice of God and read it on the
bathroom wall I know that God is in them.
Those who come after us will have to read over much endless misinterpretation
to get anything out of you and my discourse so since you do not see God in them
I have no more to say to you. There is no STEP TWO (as we cannot agree on step
one) for you are believing you are speaking to a devil and that God is not in
me this is clear. I will not respond to you anymore since your
misinterpretation of me is without end or intent of true sharing as
illustraited by the constant misinterpretation.
(you might want to put me on your ignore list as I intent to do that with you
for others sake rather then endless misinterpretation of my words)
As to I should repent and see God in you,,,, I do see God in you, especially
your humor and I have done as I have asked you to do.
There once was a woman that was misinterpreting everything her husband said
because she was bent on divorcing him. She had made up a story about him and he
went to her and said "do you not know when we go to court over this and
the truth comes out that "you will be blown away". The woman then
called the police and furthered building her story against him by saying to the
police "this man has threatened me" he has said that he would blow me
away." Was that the intent of the man? What was her intent? Why not by
your truth stimulate others on this forum to God rather than being bent on
making me look foolish. You asked for me to break it down so you can sincerily
understand me and when I did you proved your intent was not for me to break it
down so that you could understand it but you were laying in wait for another
reason and that was not your true intent. If your intent changes maybe someone
else will contend with you further, I have no more to say to you Ken.
Pro 9:7 He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that
rebuketh a wicked [man getteth] himself a blot. 8 Reprove not a scorner, lest
he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
In our striving together for the truth you and I have come to better see what
is meant by "interpretations of man" by the misinterpretations of men
and woman desiring divorce (separation).
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-16-2002 at 12:57 AM
DNATREE
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Location:
Posts: 222
Original Sin as related to the
unpardonable sin
Through learning from spirit I found that the only
thing that separates me from God is my own beliefs. Like a veil I had hidden
myself from you. Not the eating of the tree but the veil, for to be separate
from God is death so when they hid they fulfilled the saying (in the moment you
eat from it you shall surely die) Actually it was in the moment you hide or
veil yourself from me you shall surely be separate from me which is death
(spiritual), the not allowing the spirit to lead me out of that bondage. I am
trying to speak your language. (stiffnecked dogmatic religious want to follow
interpretation) So to veil is to quench the spirit. Like veiling yourself from
your mate, or hiding because of shame or blame. It was the shame or blame that
was created by the world interpretation and further misunderstood in
christianity. By living in the spirit by faith without regard to the law you
find that you fulfill the intent of the law yet you do not allow any shame or
blame, because that is what veils.
The veil between you and God is made evident by the separation between you and
others. The spirit takes you there to teach you about separation from those you
love so that you can see clearly what it is that is separating you from
God/life/ all that is and then from those eyes you see all things new. You see
the original intent of the veil in the temple between you and I, God and man
conan
Senior
Member
Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 848
Re: Original Sin as related to
the unpardonable sin
quote:
Originally posted by DNATREE
I am trying to speak your language. (stiffnecked dogmatic religious
want to follow interpretation) So to veil is to quench the spirit. Like veiling
yourself from your mate, or hiding because of shame or blame. It was the shame
or blame that was created by the world interpretation and further misunderstood
in christianity.
hi Mr. Tree,
I have been "wondering" .....Are you in the market for a
"compound"? .....(no...I am not in real estae ...just curious)
__________________
King of endless worth
No one could express
How much you deserve
Though I'm weak and poor
All I have is yours
Every single breath
revleonard
Moderator
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Lynwood, Ca
Posts: 1624
Re: Original Sin as related to
the unpardonable sin
quote:
Originally posted by DNATREE
Through learning from spirit I found that the only thing that
separates me from God is my own beliefs. Like a veil I had hidden myself from
you. Not the eating of the tree but the veil, for to be separate from God is
death so when they hid they fulfilled the saying (in the moment you eat from it
you shall surely die) Actually it was in the moment you hide or veil yourself
from me you shall surely be separate from me which is death (spiritual), the
not allowing the spirit to lead me out of that bondage. I am trying to speak
your language. (stiffnecked dogmatic religious want to follow interpretation)
So to veil is to quench the spirit. Like veiling yourself from your mate, or
hiding because of shame or blame. It was the shame or blame that was created by
the world interpretation and further misunderstood in christianity. By living
in the spirit by faith without regard to the law you find that you fulfill the
intent of the law yet you do not allow any shame or blame, because that is what
veils.
The veil between you and God is made evident by the separation between you and
others. The spirit takes you there to teach you about separation from those you
love so that you can see clearly what it is that is separating you from
God/life/ all that is and then from those eyes you see all things new. You see
the original intent of the veil in the temple between you and I, God and man
A little bit heavy for me, but i think DNA mignt be trying to make a point that
is worth making. Think i'll follow this thread.
__________________
May God Bless.
When it comes to my faith, I am neither Protestant nor Catholic,
Pentecostal, nor Baptist, Charismatic, nor Christadelphian; Calvinist, nor any
other denomination. I am an equal opportunity believer. I believe the bible
every opportunity I get. If you advocate it, and I can find it in the Bible: On
that particular issue; that is what denomination I am. If I cannot find it,
then I am some other denomination.
Theology
Forums is fun..
Pilgrim
Senior
Member
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Arcadia, ca usa
Posts: 554
Re: Original Sin as related to
the unpardonable sin
DNA,
Concerning original sin being related to the unpardonable sin, you have asked a
"can of worms" question (I love it). .
Mark.9.44 speaks of "the worm that dieth not, and the fire that is not
quenched". That scripture is referring to those who do not gain entrance
into the kingdom of heaven. Isa.66.24 says that the carcases of those
"worms", will be "an abhoring to all flesh" when the new
heavens and earth are established(Isa.66.22). Now notice that Job 17.14, 25.6,
Ps.22.6 and Isa.41.14, all refer to humans as worms. Ps.102.26-28 fit with 1
Cor.15.51-55 that some continue in death, but "the children of God's
servants will not, their seed will be established before him".
As far as the "fire that is not quenched", James 3.6 fits with
Isa.42.25, that there is a fire that is set with the tongue of man, and
"he knows it not, and it burns him, but he lays it not to heart".
Where 1 Cor.15.51 shows us a mystery, that not all shall sleep, but all shall
be changed, Jer.51.39 works with Jude 12, that the "spots on our feasts of
charity --will sleep a perpetual sleep, and NOT awake". John 6.44 shows Jesus
promising his followers to "raise them up in the last day", and
Eph.5.14, Rom.13.11 and 1 Cor.15.34 calls Believers to "awake from sleep
and RISE from the dead", to "awake to righteousness and sin
not". That Narrow path that leads to the straight gate is there to be
found, if we do not find the path to life, then we will remain in the
"worm state" that original sin caused in the first place. In that
respect, if we do not find/accept pardon, we remain in original sin. Any who do
remain in that state, will do so by their own will, not God's (2 Pet.3.9).
In Messiah's love
Glori
Last edited by Pilgrim on 05-31-2002 at 03:57 PM
echo
Senior
Member
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 174
Re: Re: Original Sin as related
to the unpardonable sin
quote:
Originally posted by revleonard
A little bit heavy for me, but i think DNA mignt be trying to make a point that
is worth making. Think i'll follow this thread.
Yep, I think DNA is making a very valid point. And I hope I'm understanding the
point they are trying to make.
When we forget about "the law" or trying to be "righteous"
and concentrate on our walk with God and walking in love, then we find that we
don't have to worry about the law or being righteous. Besides, the Word says we
are righteous now. Boy, this could start going around in circles pretty
quickly.
The veil in the temple that was symbolic of our separation from God was torn
when Christ died to indicate that we are no longer separated from God. If there
is a separation between us as individuals and God, it is our fault, not God's.
Of course that has always been the case.
__________________
Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him,
and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
God Bless,
Sue
Christopher
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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 218
echo,
so true.... but they died because they trangressed, not because they hid
themselves, albeit they could have come to God and confessed but they loved
darkness rather than light... somehthing we all know about, huh? God is so
gracious to let our sins find us out and offer us love and forgiveness anyhow.
Thanks be to God! I am so grateful.
Christopher
echo
Senior
Member
Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 174
Christopher,
Yes, their spirit, their connection to God, died because of their disobediance.
God warned them ahead of time that would happen. They hid themselves because of
shame or guilt. Another example of how shame and guilt separate us from God. As
for forgiveness, who could ask for a better God than one who would forgive you
before you even commit the sin!
__________________
Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him,
and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
God Bless,
Sue
DNATREE
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Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
No they died because they remained spiritually dead
and veiled and spirit could not fill them with new life because they would not
allow it because of the veil and shame and blame. Did you know that the heart
of man has evolved to where most strangers I meet understand this veil and
about shame and blame but the greatest blame and shame is emanating from
religion. Do you know that religion will soon cease and but that the original
intent of the words of faith will remain in the closet between you and your
God. You will be changed, you will be a new creature, you will see even as you
are seen, but not at all as religion interprets. For it is written, the true
worshipers will worship in spirit................and in truth. Go inside your
temple, heart and pray in secret, for the God who sees the intentions of the
heart will then reward you openly. By knowing your heart of hearts you will see
more clearly the intentions of the hearts of men, and will see whom it is that
wants to be right, and whom it is that wants to be in the spirit with the one
true lover.
DNATREE
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Excuse me Echo, I did not want you to think I was
saying NO to you in my last post, rather I am saying Yes.
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DNATREE
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I don't understand why some are making a point to
say they don't understand anything I convey. I believe this thread shows that
they do understand some of what I offer.
DNATREE
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Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Jealousy is a very narrow door
But this jealousy is not jealous of what another has
No this jealousy is an impassioned intention
Bust her hymen, tear the veil of her heart and reveal her secrets
No my love this jealousy creates a holy intent
For in this intent "there is only YOU and I"
In your temple (closet) before the lifted veil
There is ONLY you and I, my life.
I lost my life,,, I went out on the street seeking whom it is my heart desires
(song of solomon)
I cry out, "girl, girl, why have you forsaken me"
Moments later something catches my heart and again I am found for YOU (my life)
come to me in many forms, and it is like poetry, like synchronicity, and when
HE and SHE MEET they KNOW it is RIGHT. They dance like waves on an ocean of
spiritual romance.
There has always only been YOU and I on this planet, my love.
Though now YOU and I seem to be Us and Them,,, or Muslim and Christian,,,, but
when the veil of this flesh is lifted... you and I will again be one.
A divine jealousy will remove this veil that is separating you and I on this
planet. We will be made naked before each other. As it was in the beginning my
love, yet without shame. We will return to our home YOU and I.
I do not know how else to say it but how it was given.
Passionate prayer,,, Wildheart the time is right, the son (sun) is chasing away
the night (there will be no sun for he/she is the light) And the battle will be
won without a fight, for no one's wrong because no one's right. You see the
baptist (John) was no wind swept reed. His heart was sown from a WILD SEED , and
everywhere that Jesus went none understood all he said, but there is coming a
time and it is drawing NEAR, when within their hearts all men will pear (bust
her hymen, heart of man circumcised) No longer will they say the truth is over
there (or there or there ,, religion) for the word of God has been very near,
even in our hearts and in our mouths. Stephentree
PS.. Thomas,,,, my experience is that marriage only exists between God and man
and covenants made with God to join us (men, nations, man and wife) in one
intention. But the covenants are made with God and then the one chosen by God
arrives. This is very clear in what you wrote:
(The
concept of a 'divine marriage' - the bride, groom, and the chamber, is an
expression of Union between man and his Maker - in essence it point to the
resolution of opposites and the unity of the One God and as such it is used by
many traditions.)
For there has always only been you and I, my life.
Last edited by DNATREE on 07-29-2002 at 12:35 AM
DNATREE
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Posts: 222
The door to understanding the many metaphors of sex
is first understood better by romance. For as it is impossible to "get in
the spirit" with your lover without first knowing her, and romancing her,
it is likewise impossible to create in the womb of spirit without first finding
the suttle door to spirit. (the spirits are timid) For who says "you there
give me what I want" and gets it. But he that knows how to speak to her
without words and spends time with her in romance. So it is not so necessary to
explain the meanings of the "veiled mystery" except you first learn
the ways of romance. (For if I were to tell you what spirit revealed in the
meaning of the mystery of sex, it is not as easily recieved as it is first
experienced. And because of my intent to fill the emptyness here in this group
of seekers I do not wish to provoke them with my knowing. Did you know that men
were not to read the Song of Songs until they reached a certain age,, that is
metaphor also. For who knows the secrets of one's loving except the two that
share in it.
Spirit spoke in this manner as the song says " I don't care what they say,
I don't care what they do, what do they know about this love anyway."
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Ok.. I had the following experience just yesterday
Aug 12 concerning what was on my heart and the experiences I had these past two
days.
Went walking with Pam and we walked into a magazine store and I wandered around
while Pam looked for a magazine she had been looking for. I happened to notice
the cover of the August 2002 issue of Bible Review had a picture of solomons bride.
I opened the magazine to what I believe I am to post here at this site and in
this thread. There was a picture of a pegasys (horse with wings) with a bride
and bridgroom flying above the city. Beside the picture was the scripture from
the song of songs and some findings that the magazine had made. (I found my
only love. I held him, I would not let him go until I brought him to my
mother’s house, into my mothers room,” the bride sings after combing the city
streets for her missing lover (song of songs 3:4) Angels blow trumpets, a fish
bird spins about in a frenzy and a horse carries the wedding bouquet, as the
city celebrates the lovers wedding . in Marc Chagall’s 1958 oil painting “The
song of songs IV”
Soaring above Jerusalem on the winged horse the couple is released from
society’s constraints, which, in the poem, prohibit them from embracing in
public.
(note here added later: It is the morning of the 14th Wedn. and I just woke up
dreaming this. The spirit indicates and this is also how this relates to the
concept of rapture. "You shall meet him in the air and so shall we always
be with the lord" That in the way we dream (love making) with the lord, so
we are carried aloft away from the eyes of societry. And should what we dream
of come as a lover (the dream, not necessarily a physical lover) that it is
therefore been sanctified. This is how my inner relationship with spirit is.)
Anyway that is what was written on page 29 of this magazine. The spirit had
been on my heart about the bride and groom “secret place” which is how spirit
relates to my life about our relationship.
I then came home to a movie just released at blockbusters (only one copy
though) that was exactly the same spirit in one part. The movie was about a man
born in 1900 called 1900 as a name and lived his life on a ship. It had to do
with the “private moment between spirit and myself” Anyway the man was in a
similar spirit as he was alone most of his life and he was a musician. He was
playing and making a recording when he saw a woman, the music burst into
emotion about what he and the woman were passing back and forth. They then said
it would be a hit and the spirit came over the man that that was not for any
other but him and that woman. In the same manner the spirit indicates it works
with me and creates via our loving and sharing as in dreaming together. Many
other synchronicities on this subject happened yesterday. I felt as though what
I have offered and what others have may also be supported with this experience,
as much of what they seem to say in this article is the same spirit we have
offered here.
Bible review (202-364-3300)
One other thing that Pam really thought was like my experience was the man in
the movie 1900 and how he reacted to the words "start fresh and new"
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-14-2002 at 08:45 PM
Witness
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DNA,
There are two forces that utilize dreams. Beware, you are sadly deceived.
John
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peh
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John
Someone has said, "there is none so blind as
those who will not see". This seems to be proven over and over as
"logs" that people do not know or refuse to believe are in their own
eyes are blindly displayed for others to see. Sadly, this quote from your post
to dear DNA seems to be an example of that:
quote: There
are two forces that utilize dreams. Beware, you are sadly deceived.
What I am saying, exactly, is
while the first part of your quoted statement above MIGHT be true, the 2nd
part, issued with the "authority" of a flat statement is nothing more
than your opinion. To give you the benefit of the doubt, I believe you felt you
needed to warn DNATree. The question is, why? (Before you marshal your post,
realize the question is rhetorical. I am not asking to know your mind on the
subject, but only to ask you to look at your own motives).
__________________
peh
Teach me to be diligent but not impatient, teach me to be persistent but not
obstinate, teach me to be enthusiastic but not fanatic. Then, O God, I may be
worthy to teach.
Witness
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Peh,
Knowledge sometimes can be viewed as arrogance, though in some cases it is just
knowledge.
My motive was to warn, to help one trapped in a trap that I was once in.
Do you not recognize the danger that DNA is in?
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
peh
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No, John, I don't. DNATree is in love with the
Father and is poetical in the words used to tell of it, that is what I see.
__________________
Witness
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Posts: 2104
dmac,
Your blindness to DNAs plight has me baffled if not concerned.
I asked you not to belittle me. Do you think that I am ignorant of the
scriptures?
Oh well. Right now I am at a loss. I have met your kind here, and all I can
tell you is that your many words say little to me. I will pray about that.
John
dmac5
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Witness, what on earth are you talking about here;
Your blindness to DNAs plight has me baffled if not concerned.
And where, did it come up in our conversation? As far as he is concerned, if
you are a light to the blind, then start guiding the boy. I do well to
understand one paragraph of what he writes, and I cannot say that when I think
I understand it, that I am even understanding it. Therefore, I leave his
correcting to those better suited to such tasks. Maybe you are the one better
suited to deal with it.
Second, who is trying to belittle you? And what exactly is my kind? As to
whether you are ignorant of the scriptures or not, I will let your own words
decide. I have not attempted to pass judgement on you, merely to answer
questions that you directed toward me, to the best of my ability. When I do so,
I am accused of trying to belittle you? Maybe you can quote where I belittled
you so that I can see the error of my ways and correct it?
DNATREE
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And what you are expousing is the same thing that
has millions locked behind an interpretation unable to have true experience
with spirit because true experience does not match those dead interpretations.
Words like DANGER!!!!! are clear signs of theology designed to keep people in
the dark by appealing to the fears of those who have not experienced true
spirit.
( Originally posted by Heartofisreal:When man judges wisdom by his own heart he
will be open to other spirits than the Spirit of G-d.. )
This is the "interpretation" also based on fear most widely used by
the "interpretors". It is designed to bring fear to the new christian
to keep them in the way that the group interpret. If you put it along side of
the teachings of Jesus even though it was offered by an apostle. I tell you it
is fear!!!!!! And it is blocking the door to spirit. What this interpretation
leads to is that nobody in the group that believes this more than what Jesus
spoke will have any real spiritual experience of which that experience would
"UPSET" the group. Now anything "real or not" is kept away
by this fear that was not the original intent.
Christians using fear in their tactics are the furthest away from spirit and
will soon be shown to be the greatest stumbling blocks.
You have said it right:
(Originally posted by Heartofisreal: grace and truth come from the testimony of
Y'shua haMoshiach, a LIVING WORD that will never lead the elect astray.)
So is this LIVING WORD the one that is creating so much separation as Mathew
10:24 suggest the plan of the words of Jesus were, (is that the word that will
"never lead the elect astray") or is this living word the result of
the trauma and cross of that experience written on your heart. Yes you are
right,, too bad if it is only words about a living word and not a word that is
alive in you. Repeating scripture makes one sound as though they are pious but
the power demonstrated in your life would be much more real to me.
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-14-2002 at 01:54 AM
DNATREE
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I am not seeking to win any debate, I know what my
life is about and do not need you to agree with me. But I don't care what the
members of this board think about the fact that they cannot understand all that
I speak. I did not ever say that was the intent. What I intended to communicate
cannot even be put in words but if you wanted to understand you would be making
progress. (All on this forum, I await the spirit to use this foolishness you do
not understand) But I don't need to ask you the question as to wether you
understand me or anyone understands me. I have completed my intent in that I
know you all were effected by my life experience and how I communicated on this
forum. Wether I am strange or uncomprehendable by some is not part of the
equation. As small as it may seem I have completed my intent and wether I post
anymore will be according to the fruit that I see.
Actually I did not know about your Logos and Rhema. With the power of God I do
believe all things and see great validity in that especially if spirit
sanctioned it for your life.
As to your suffering, that is exactly what I mean in that wether it was the you
getting pierced by me or I getting misunderstood and blamed by you that is the
path I speak of and though you are on one side of this veil of interpretation
and I am the one on this other side we both are hurting each other by not
reaching to understand each other. You see you have hit upon what I am saying
just you cannot take yourself and see Christ in both sides because of
interpretation. I am not trying to destroy your beliefs but I am expressing
what my life is here to express and many will be effected in many ways. It is
my intent that Christianity move toward allowing spirit to flow and not block
the door with interpretations. For that was the original intent of what is
called word of God.
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-14-2002 at 12:09 PM
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DNATREE
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There is only You (catholic) and I (protestant)
There is only You (Muslim) and I (Christian)
There is only You (wife) and I (husband)
There is only You (man) and I (God)
There is only YOU and I
There has always only been you and I on this planet
and if you do it unto the least of them,,,you have done it unto me. I tell you
neither catholic or protestant will get you into the kingdom but only the
SPIRIT. Let us lay aside the veils of interpretation that have been separating
YOU and I on this planet and let the spirit do the work of joining our hearts.
For it is only that Spirit that can go beyond those veils.
DNATREE
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Party on in the spirit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For the purpose of life is Joy in the spirit and to attain this is to see
spirit and not the calamity (storm) around you. And when the storm is over he
will plant my feet upon solid ground and I will find myself standing where he
has promised by his spirit.
For he will keep me in his "secret place" as the sun passes over. For
my DELIGHT is in him and though the world pass away I will be found in him. ( I
don't know about scripture but this is what spirit has said to me)
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upphouse
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That's a refreshing perspective as far as I'm
concerned!
You have put the Fun back into fundamentalist dogma.
DNATREE
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I wrote this dancing around and listening to a
Willie Nelson tape last night.
(That we based on all these facts
Ain't necessarilly true.) Willie Nelson Song
Is it facts we seek, or is it to know him (spirit)
Well stated is this problem with facts:
( Originally posted by Lydia: the difficulty I have (or at least one
difficulty) is knowing when we have this flawed (albeit accommodated)
understanding in the first place. How could we ever know this? And further, how
we might go about knowing how we might have known that we knew that we were in
error in this regard, if indeed we might or might not be in error about that
particular point of issue on the way to yet another point as well, and so on.)
As to wether the bible is flawed, was it meant to replace the spirit? Or was it
meant to create the conditions of heart that would reveal the spirit? For the
path of life and relationship is the same path as "those who went before
us" and written on the path is the truth. The path is the song sung by
billions who went before us.
Another Willie Nelson song as spirit transmuted it.
"A man is born, but he's no good, no how, without (THE) a SONG.
(spirit)" And "there is no love at all, without the song.
(spirit)"
You can try to interpret, you can try to collect the best interpretations. But
without the spirit of promise you have wasted your time.
You see the problem with interpretations is that they really are unbelief. They
are the so called facts that removed the spirit from the equation. The only
truth is what is written on your heart by spirit and if you have collected
facts or interpretations what power have they except that they be written on
your heart. (for faith is in that which has been written on your heart not read
from a book) So what witness have you of these facts except you present how
they were written upon YOUR HEART. What good does it do to quote scripture if
you have no testimony written on your heart. And if after meeting spirit you
find it contrary to the law, interpretations, (as is written) what you are told
to believe (law) what is it then that your testimony allows you to overcome but
interpretations and the mass that demand you worship them. For they have
millions and money and vote but what one filled with spirit can do compared to
10,000 formed in the image of dead interpretations.
(For my witness I have been labeled A#1 heritic over and over, but so was
Jesus.)
(like the smallest of points overlooked, the SPIRIT alters the equation and
renders all the interpretations meaningless, and in doing so fulfills all
scripture. Bringing back what was stolen by those that never knew him.)
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-10-2002 at 10:36 PM
DNATREE
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The new man overtakes the old
. The new man that has been growing overtakes the
old man. It is better to go into heaven having one eye than having two being
thrown into hell. (note here about loving a woman and domestication of a man by
love.) This is the two minds that grow side by side the one (spirit) overtakes
the other, flesh (interpretations of man, letter, own understandings) The love
of spirit domesticates a man you do not need a law. For the law had me
pondering what it is I was not to be doing but the spirit had me pondering a
universe without regard to that thing that I was not to be pondering. (the bad
thing the law says not to do)And if you allow it (that which you should not be
pondering) in your temple then you have created it. But if by the power of
love’s spirit I see through this veil of flesh and only see YOU, my love, my
life, my savior, my queen, in the forms that make up this universe with me,
then those things (bad things the law says not to do but have the thought of
the thing I am not supposed to do in them) are not even in my world
vmatt
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Re: The new man overtakes the old
quote:
Originally posted by DNATREE
This is the two minds that grow side by side the one (spirit) overtakes the
other, flesh (interpretations of man, letter, own understandings) The love of
spirit domesticates a man you do not need a law.
You list "interpretations of man", "letter" and "own
understandings" as of the flesh. I assume you mean false
"interpretations, letter, own understandings". Therefore correct
interpretations of man, letter and own understandings are things of the spirit?
DNATREE
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Actually all interpretations change for all
interpretations are made up of layers of understandings and all things become
new. Lets take the understanding "God is Love", for example. In times
past what that meant was different than the interpretation that was handed us
by our fathers. For there is no true love outside of God. And our
interpretations of what is to be loved is wrong. All interpretations,,, as in
not one stone left on top of another. But do not misinterpret this now either
for this is a wonderful thing, for what man when the reality itself has changed
around him does not change his interpretations.
vmatt
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Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by DNATREE
Actually all interpretations change for all interpretations are made up of
layers of understandings and all things become new. Lets take the understanding
"God is Love", for example. In times past what that meant was
different than the interpretation that was handed us by our fathers. For there
is no true love outside of God. And our interpretations of what is to be loved
is wrong. All interpretations,,, as in not one stone left on top of another.
But do not misinterpret this now either for this is a wonderful thing, for what
man when the reality itself has changed around him does not change his interpretations.
There is a difference between understanding and interpretation in scripture but
you seem to use them interchangeably and this is confusing me. Nevertheless,
once the correct understanding or interpretation is received it cannot ever
change because it has been understood or interpreted as God intended it to be
and God does not change. You mention "God is love" for instance but I
don't think anyone knows the full meaning or understanding of that phrase. It
does not negate the phrase "God is a consuming fire" either nor the
many other descriptions of what God is. Your last statement I would vehemently
disagree with that once a man receives the correct understanding of the word of
God that understanding cannot change regardless of the circumstances as the
book of Job is a wonderful example. Take care and God bless you and yours.
DNATREE
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When my life told me that I was to recieve an
inheritance I did believe. But as I recieved what I was to recieve it was not
what I thought it would be. (It was more than I thought) So the fact that I
could not understand what the inheritance I was to recieve was because of my
understanding at the time does not change the fact that I was to recieve it,
just what it was and that changes everything. It changed every meaning of what
I had been handed to believe as christianity.
vmatt
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Registered: Jul 2002
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Posts: 266
quote:
Originally posted by DNATREE
When my life told me that I was to recieve an inheritance I did believe. But
as I recieved what I was to recieve it was not what I thought it would be. (It
was more than I thought) So the fact that I could not understand what the
inheritance I was to recieve was because of my understanding at the time does
not change the fact that I was to recieve it, just what it was and that changes
everything. It changed every meaning of what I had been handed to believe as
christianity.
Who told you and what inheritance? Man handed
you "Christianity", not Christ or God. God will hand you the truth if
you want it. Truth trumps everything my friend.
Barneyfife
Member
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: U.S.
Posts: 7
Hello DNATREE,
I have a question....if the new man overtakes the old in the sense you seem to
suggest (if I understand you correctly), why is there so much sin and lack of
genuine love in a nation that has since its inception, claimed to be
predominantly Christian?
If the new man overtakes the old, as Christianity says, shouldn't there be
ample evidence for it? I don't see that evidence. To the contrary, in many
respects we seem to be failing morally at an alarming rate. How do you explain
this seeming discrepancy?
God bless.
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
Hi there Barney! Just wanted to welcome you to the
forum!
From your profile.... just what sort of heretic are you?
Blessings
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trying to return the favor
DNATREE
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Barneyfife,
Many have seen as I did 22 yrs ago that the spirit in the words of Jesus had to
be inspired. But the problem is that the interpretations that have been put in
place by fearful controllers have negated the true SPIRIT of the words and
indeed are even blocking the door to understanding that could lead one to true
experience in spirit. It is because of these seeming hypocritical
interpretations that you yourself have trouble with the christian
interpretation. But were you to let go of that veil and seek only spirit in the
way that your life would lead,, then you would be a believer as well,,, not in
the interpretations that because of the great separations that they create are
obviously ANTI-CHRIST, but in the reality of your own experience with spirit.
Now as the experiences proved to be for me and teaching me in all manner as to
what my life was about (not what the churchies intended for my life) then it
became clear through the layering of days in spirit what the meaning of words
misinterpreted by controllers were really saying. Validating me, as the interpretations
were at the same time condemning me. In that after a time of relationship with
spirit I was given the power to overcome these heritics that would call me a
heritic. For it has always been that the religious were they that persecuted
the stranger (put into bondage the believer in spirit) and in there fear they
created systems (laws and interpretations) designed to quite their fears. These
systems are easily negotiated by spirit so that THEY may live in their dead
interpretations and you can go on to understanding who you really are and what
your purpose is. It is that man inside me that was growing in faith with spirit
that overtook the fearful questioning interpretor inside me and took the word
of Spirit and overcame them resulting in a life of wonder seeing things that
ear has not heard neither has it entered into the heart of man what is
prepaired for each of us in spirit. Now if it has not entered into the heart of
man how then is it already written in a book which is the creation of man. For
writing and sculpture (idols) and such were creations of man and man it is that
says this is law. But it is not the law of God, for the law of God is perfect
and is not words but spirit. There are literally thousands of points made
within the scribbling of scribes (scripture) that if one were to be out of
place would alter the meaning of the entire equation of scripture. Therefore it
is not to be interpreted by any other than the original spirit that inspired
it. And that spirit it is that divides the chaff from the wheat revealing what
is real and what is put there by man in 65ad or 365ad or selecting which books
in 1600ad or well anyone except for those blinded by scripture can see what I
am getting at.
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-06-2002 at 12:57 AM
Barneyfife
Member
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: U.S.
Posts: 7
Hello Ken,
Thanks for the welcome. I suppose I'm just the standard run-of-the-mill
heretic. Actually, I was disfellowshipped some years ago from a small
Calvinistic church "...for heresey, for believing the old millennial reign
(premilennialism) doctrine." No kidding. If one didn't agree with these
folks' amillennialism, one was kaput. This was not the real reason for my
dismissal, but one my former brethren quickly came up with to get rid of a
'problem maker....'
DNATREE,
Thanks for your reply, but it doesn't make much sense to me. You seem to enjoy
using metaphorical phrasing, which is okay except it's hard to follow.
Can you sum up an answer to my previous quesiton in a paragraph or two? Forgive
my slowness....
Thanks.
Lydia
Moderator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 3591
Hi Barney...welcome to the forum. We have a couple
of other really great heretics around here somewhere...both gentlemen. I'm not
really here, just sort of reading around a little and really to tired to post.
And, don't feel bad about DNA's writing, I don't understand them either, well
once in a while if I work at it I think I understand something, but am not
really sure. I'm a hit it on the head kind of person.
I don't know what exactly DNA is talking about, but Paul commented on the old
self and new self in Eph 4.
22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old
self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the usts of deceit,
23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in
righteousness and holiness of the truth.
later on he says
30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of
redemption.
And, there in lies the problem as to why you don't see a difference. Paul was
speaking in regard to believers living a sinful lifestyle, the old self. And to
renew the mind (most often a reference to study of the Word). And put on the
new self.
God does not fellowship with sin. The Holy Spirit is our mentor and helper. So
when we sin, he is not guiding us. An analogy might be a parent leading a child
by the hand. If the child lets go of the parents hand then he is out of contact
and can wander off. God gave us something to do about sin. 1 John 1:9
I don't think it is being taught much in the churchs, but it is essential to
spiritual life. You either do it or you don't have one. So, I think we do have
a lot of believers out there running around out of fellowship and if their sin
nature ..old self ..trends to good, they are working their little hearts out by
human power. If it trends toward 'bad', then they are living like an
unbeliever. Morality has nothing to do with spirituality. The unbeliever can be
moral. The difference lies in whether a person is controlled by the Spirit in
the new self or by the lust of the flesh in the old self, whether that be bad
or good.
I'm in a time crunch this week, so won't be around much...hope you enjoy.
Lyd
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that which I have committed unto him against that day." 2 Tm. 1:12
DNATREE
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The reason I write the way I do is because that is
the way I experienced it. As I have written before on this forum, my intention
is to get one to wonder, but our minds want a step 1, 2, 3 method and then we
want to give that method to everyone as the truth. But that is not the intent
of spirit because what you are about is a new creature different than the other
cells in the body. I would remind each of those on this forum that had you been
in the company of Jesus as he spoke in parables that you too would be saying
similar things that are spoken here about "I think I understand
but...." Rather than explain I would ask that you read what I have written
before on this forum because it explains the same thing in many different ways.
You can go to members and search under dnatree and I would direct you to the
last post before this one because it is similar to your experience but mine was
in a presbytarian church.
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-06-2002 at 11:26 PM
DNATREE
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Money power influence of the
church, is it of God?
Before you add your vote and money to the worship
of interpretation please consider the following.
Rome at the time of 26AD
1. Rome had conquered most of the known world and the synergy of culture that
that created was similar to what is happening today now that the oceans like
the mediteranian are no longer separating us. It was thought to be a flowering
(fruit) of culture at that time as what is happening now is a flowering (fruit
of dna) For now is the time that the fruit is to come out on the tree as the
first fruits did in a time past.
2. The roman emperor indicated that he would put himself in the temple to be
worshipped in Isreal. Jesus said when you see this to run to the mountains, but
that they would be gathered again in the end time. Jesus said this about 26ad
when the Roman Emporer was making himself a God to be worshipped by all. Now if
all this happened why do we think that what is present is not anti-christ.
(this would account for the separation the dogma is causing and the lack of
true power and spirit. (The religious at the time were as the one that gave
power to the beast (rome) who were their controllers at the time, in the same
manner that fundamentalism gives power to the controlling aspect of
government.(America believing she is right, that rightness feeling is like a
power that gives us the right to do things to others even if they think we are
wrong) It must be noted that the religion is a forum that is not a part of the
average stranger in America’s life. And in this forum they have power through
money and vote while the stranger on the streets opinion would be washed away
by this Christian power of money and influence. (Is this the power that was
intended???????????????)
3. Christians believe that we are in the period before the anti-christ appears
but Jesus said that even then anti-christs were infiltrating the understanding
that he was to leave behind. (like one of the millions of smallest of points
that because man will no longer be killed as easily for speaking against the
self appointed rulers in Christianity these points will someday change
everything. Like the smallest of points that can change the whole equation.)
4. There is a little section in the bible that tells of a time after this is
defeated that after a millennium that the truth would return and put away the
power of the devil. The spirit indicates that the interpreters wanted their
people that they wanted to control to believe that an anti-christ was coming so
that they could use that fear to keep the interpretation as they suggested,
when the anti-christ Jesus was speaking of was to come in 65ad and they were
scattered. We are really at the point where God will put away the power of the
anti-christ which is this interpretation. (For the ones that used the
interpretation to keep the people in check were anti-christ and this has been
handed down to us as the interpretation to worship.
What I am saying is that the smallest of points can change the entire meaning
(interpretation) and that we must remember who it was that enforced (put to
death anyone that disagreed, pope religion, crusades, burnings) this
interpretation that we demand the whole world worship now. So before you give
power to your church to stop my voice, as I am just a voice in this wilderness
of the peoples, I must remind each of you on this forum that if you did not
hear it from God the book that is worshipped as God says that you do not have
ANYTHING and the interpretation you may be worshipping is what billions were
killed for not believing by anti-christ, and you know that one of the points
out of place will render that interpretation meaningless. Woe to the religious
that have given the stranger on the street no voice, who have demanded that God
is an interpretation and that without that interpretation the stranger is left
out on the street. For they have made it a sin to follow spirit and have on
their hands the blood of billions put to death for their beliefs that differed
from the interpretation man demanded others worship. How much greater will the
condemnation of this generation be. For I will make the stranger “right” and
shame will be the reward of those that wanted to be right above the rightiousness
of God which is not of the law (interpretation man demands you believe is a
law) but of faith in spirit. Many would not understand the reason I have chosen
to live in my car much of the time, to wander, to wonder. I have no money to
speak of but I have everything because of what has been taken from me freed me
to see what was really imprtant. I do fix electronics and write, but what
sustains me is the spirit. Life is not what you were told by the world, and
what they teach in churches is not much different than what you are taught by
the world, such as some things are good and some things are bad. Some things
are right and some things are wrong. But this is what we teach a baby, what God
has for you is much weightier.
Many things will be changing soon, (for the seeds were planted 40 years ago to
bring this about) what if when the evidence comes out that we are worshipping
an interpretation and that the original intent was something else, something
that was killed by those that wanted this interpretation to be IN CONTROL. What
will you do, will you turn a blind eye to the stranger?
What happened between 26ad and 60ad was a flowering that leveled beliefs to the
ground, can you see the signs of the times? And as it was written of another
generation "for was it unto you that it was given,,,,,, or from you that
it came forth...
What we believe to be human has flowered and been cut down before,, and like a
tree fruit has been the intent of the owner of the vineyard. The path of those
who went before us has been the same that they thought that they were right and
found something much greater in the end. For they followed their
interpretations and when they evolved to a point in their understanding the
smallest of points changed everything. This happened before what we can
understand as history and it was by the spirit that this occured.
The preacher and lawyer have taken my bride, and by their view she is forced to
abide, is this the reason that I died...... It's love across time get ready for
the ride!!!!!!!
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-04-2002 at 10:03 PM
Wetshoes
Member
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Cardiff, California
Posts: 20
DNA TREE
I think I am following what you are saying but it is difficult and I find
myself having to add punctuation to separate your thoughts!
Can you give some examples? Do you consider the term "interpretations' as
synonomous with traditions? Are you saying that the church has validated long
standing traditions, "interpreting" them as divinly ordained? Or are
you making a completely different point?
Also, are you grouping all expressions of Christianity together under a single
thought or "interpretation" or are you refering to a specific
element?
__________________
The truth needs no defense, only to be seen!
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Wetshoes,
Thankyou for your question as the intent of the heart is clear in your
question.
What I am saying is that if one was to truely have experience with spirit would
spirit validate these interpretations that we have been handed from our
fathers. Well after many years of experience I have found that spirit is not
about validating those but rather what spirit gives is something to validate
you as a son of God. The most shocking example is salvation,,,, the need for
salvation in 30ad had to do with what was to happen in 30 yrs, but of course
men would benefit from the relationship with spirit but what they were given
back then is not as much for us now as what spirit offers now.
Let's take the law of Moses for another example, If we were present in the
congregation that were near the point of death without water and food and if we
had to come up with a covenant between this mass of people to lead them into
what they have to do you would understand the overbearing intent of the law of
Moses. It would be like if you found yourself in a group of excape prisoners
and need to create order. You see ask anything of the father and it will be
given to you and that was what they needed. Now it is the way of spirit to let
another generation believe whatever they want and stay in bondage to their own
interpretations about why that law was given to that group wandering in the
wilderness. But it was further learned that that law revealed our separations
and that therefore though it was "the law of men" given to them for a
purpose that without being there would be far removed from our interpretations,
it was still useful as anything bad usually leads to a truth.
So I am saying that learning from spirit revealed to me that most that want you
to adhere to the law are of the "fearful and unbelieving amoung us"
for they not knowing spirit could not trust that they would not be in danger
without that form of external control. For they see what they fear and they
draw it ever near to them with their intent layered with fear. But he that
abides in the spirit knows that fear is the power of separation that leads to
death. But love and joy and "as a sheep to the slaughter" is the way of
the spirit not fearful for "though art with me" and knowing
"nothing happens without spirit seeing".
You see we have been handed many interpretations. After learning from spirit
the ways of spirit it is easy to say that none are right, no not one
interpretation. For that was the plan to bind the strong man,,, he that lords
it over others and keeps them in bondage by interpretation. For it is not for
the purpose that the interpretations tell us that these things were allowed to
be but that those that crucified Christ in the first place would "pick up
the clothes (veils, interpretations) from the bottom of the cross and be bound
by them as it has always been that way that the "sons of the
pharasees" would take the interpretations and lead many into bondage. For
if spirit did not write it on your heart was it ever written? You see that is
why they could never win, for it was not the interpretations,, but the true
spirit of the words which is only known in true relationship to spirit.
Wetshoes
Member
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Cardiff, California
Posts: 20
Ahh! Now I think I understand! If I am
understanding you then, I will inject some of my own thoughts and you can see
if you agree!
Let me use a simile to frame a point of view! The last church government that I
was a part of, was a board of seven members. I could not understand why we were
making decisions based on a “compromise” between points of view! It was almost
as if the Spirit of God was confused, and it required a “debate” to find God’s
heart! As we expressed opinions and contended each, for his “interpretation” of
what God was saying, we would settle at the place where there seemed the least
offense to each member. We would then take a poll “rules of Robert” and enact
the democratic outcome as God’s will of a situation. I offered - that if we did
not have a complete consensus - that we did not have God’s will! Nothing of
scripture models a democracy! One or all of us were not hearing God but His
will was “interpreted” in this way! As time went on, I became more and more
offended by this method. Finally, I offered this analogy to the board:
-- A trust is an “un-living” entity that has an identity as if it were living.
A trust is formed to act as entity with authority over a given situation, as in
the case of a will, acting on behalf of the one forming it! The church acts as
a trust! It becomes a form of government that has authority in a believers
life! It became a “lifeless” institution that delegates to the believer - God’s
word and becomes the receptacle for God - worship! People come to be fed what
God would have them consume and sacrifice to God an offering of time, service
and money! --
It is possible to attend a church for years and never have an intimate
encounter with God! I noticed that blind trust was expected of a congregation,
that God was speaking through the pastor! He would bring “the word” to the
congregation! What we produced, were people who came as empty cups to be filled
up, every Sunday! Yet the church was established much different. Each - was to
bring the grace God had given them when they assembled -- and be “poured out!”
The church - rather than acting as a conduit for God actually functioned better
as an insulator!
In the same way, the Law functioned as a “method” to understand God but it
became a replacement of God! Loyalty to the law never diminished in the heart
of Israel. The “tutor” became a sheath over the heart of God’s people and when
He came to them, they did not know Him! The modern Christian is often more
passionate about what they believe, than they are about who they are believing
it for! Doctrine -- in many cases, has replaced relationship! Christianity, has
been reduced to camps of common thought! The body of Christ has built strong
bonds of belief but weak bonds of associated love! You can post a doctrine of
“interpretation” on any Christian web board and that thread will turn into
passionate defense of a point of view! Yet the “law” summarized in a single
statement: “Love the lord your God with all your heart, and your neighbor as
yourself”; can only be fulfilled if the one loving God and neighbor - know’s
God and neighbor! An act of obedience to this summarized law, makes it
necessary that the Spirit be resident and active in the believers life! God’s
“will” in any situation can be discerned then - through that relationship and
man no longer needs someone to interpret for him! No man will ever stand before
the Lord and be justified by being mislead by another man, yet every man will
either hear “well done good and faithful servant” or “depart from me, I never
knew you!”
__________________
The truth needs no defense, only to be seen!
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
22yrs ago my daily devotions were taken and
deceminated amoung the elders of a church that my family attended that I had
originally attended but I knew they could not go where spirit was leading me. I
was called to a meeting of these elders where they held up the bible and said
"this is the word of God" we cannot sanction your beliefs "which
no one would have known had they not taken my writings and passed them
around" and you are bringing fear to your family and this church. After
much debate the tried to cast the devil out of me and I ended up living on top
of Monte Sano Mountain in Alabama for several months in my car. This veil of
interpretation led to me loosing all I had because they were "right"
and I was "wrong". And this has happened in one form or another many
times whenever I got around religious people. So for 20 years I lived in the
spirit alone with the wildhearts of this world. (bikers, sailors, bums, lost
folk) I wandered for years learning from life and from others that had
experienced the truth of what the "interpretors" actually are. What
you experienced in your church was very similar to what I experienced before
leaving and studying alone. But even alone they came to me over and over and demanded
that the truth was what those that killed billions in the name of that truth
was. I had peaple when I answer them to run under cover because they FEARED
lightning striking because I denied their interpretation of God. About ten
years ago I began to meet each day those that had similar experiences as I. In
the moment I would meet people having exactly that experience I was having and
understanding each other though we were strangers "we were seeing face to
face" The spirit indicated that the "tables would turn on this planet
soon" and that the very ones that worship words on a page and not the
spirit that authors all things would interpret what is coming because of that
deluding influence and what will occur would be as Mathew 10:28 Do not think I
have come to bring peace but the sword for brother will rise against brother.
(paraphrased) And that the truth that is to be learned would be learned from
this as life had taught me from this.
Wetshoes
Member
Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Cardiff, California
Posts: 20
Well I have to say that we come from different aspects
of life but I see you now face to face! And it is very hard to convey a thought
without verbal dialouge but I think down the road, the church will find itself
polarized into camps of opposition, with one being state validated and one
being divinly empowered, I agree! I can see persecution carried out by those
who call on God's name - against those who are called by His name!
By the way! I have a brother in the Lord that I fellowship continually and is
part of my life, who had the same experience you have! His favorite saying is
"I do all for those I ride with!"
Love in the Lord
John
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Consider a tree how it grows, for first a tender
leaf comes forth and after much growth branches and fruit. When first you find
spirit you find that what the heart desires is not silver and gold but the very
spirit itself. So the wonder of spirit is as the plant that springs up and then
the summer comes and the things that are of spirit and the things that are of
man are tested. But for the tree that overcomes it will go on to further
growth. Now learning the language and suttleness of spirit would then give way
to more layered experiences in spirit. Experiences and finding you have what
you need. Now as the tree grows the layers of experience change from suttle
thoughts and coincidences to more profound experiences and then when mature the
tree begins to bring forth fruit. So you see that what the heart desires will
be not what you think you want. For who would lay down all they own in order to
have more given to them the next day. For the heart desires union first, then
experience, then to fill the emptyness between you and I. Now it is in the
fruit stage that having been sanctified that anything you desire would
"turn out to be what you get". For first finding the kingdom it was
written that then all these things are added unto you. Now that is the path of
great reward, but many will not say in their hearts yes "crush me"
that I might live and know all that I need to know to attain this life, (which
is the requirment of this path) but another path such as that of Intent and
Allowing (spoken of by Abraham Hicks for example) could shortcut this and you
can have what you think you desire now, but it will cause growth and learning
but the great path of the heart may only be known by the path of our fathers
which is what Jesus spoke of. Salvation is actually a given except that you
short it out with your separate intentions and experience desolation. I say
this because without giving yourself wholly to life you will not be taken hold
of by spirit so why play christian if you do not intend to become a sacrifice.
No rather embrace the love in all things then. And study how your true heart
intentions already create your reality. You see I would recommend the path of
spirit that I took but if you want spirit to give you the desires of your heart
without first being crushed and experiencing years of loneliness I believe you
may want to ask the spirit to lead you to how to manifest without that pain.
For magic comes in many forms, for anything you ask of the father believing
will be given to you but first it has to run the gauntlet of your beliefs that
you were taught. That is what the sanctifying process is for to change all
those beliefs. But the fastest way is to forget all you think you know and
believe all such as AbrahamHicks.org tells you asking the father to make it so.
peh
Senior
Member
Registered: Jun 2002
Location: south carolina
Posts: 114
Separating the chaff
From your post, Lydia,
quote:
I don't see much of a conflict
in these passages
I'm always amazed when I see what someone else reads into a post that I didn't
intend. Here it is the uniformity of the verses and not any conflict between
them I thought thought I was emphasizing.
quote:
I don't think you will find much
interest in this subject. Over the course of time I've posted on it extensively
anyway
And you're probably right, most of the posters on this forum are probably way
beyond the mundane of the "prosperity" gospel. Your statement :
quote:
others grow discouraged because
they are praying for things and not getting them
restates my seeing, and was the reason for the post. As you point out the
pastors are not teaching and the people hearing "all ya gotta do is
believe" are being hurt and in some cases set against the Word. (These
verses certainly sound straightforward enough.) The bewilderment of the people
says, "If Jesus meant, (for instance), that we could have whatever we ask,
provided we ask properly, for the proper thing, in the proper spirit, at the
proper time, why didn't He say so here (as He did elsewhere)? Are we to guess
whether He means what He says or not?"
Anyone who has prayed for something and not gotten it enough times has a
tendency to disregard verses with these sorts of promises in them with either a
"yeah, right" attitude or just "I don't understand that",
especially if they see others, unbelievers included, getting "stuff"
and hearing testimonies of those "who just believed, sowed that 'seed of
faith' money, and there we are, millionaires and able to give even more!" Now,
you and I've been around long enough to know it ain't always a blessing to get
wealth, or even moderate comfort, for the very reasons you stated. And in the
long run, I'd be willing to bet we'll be very grateful our Father was so wise
as to not give us what we asked for. But, if we are that person praying for
their husband to be saved, or for a child's health, or for a way to fulfill a
vision they believe the Lord has given them, then the shut doors and silent
heavens are much more problematic and the soul of the person much more
susceptible to the enemy's taunts.
quote:
The mature believer understands
how and when to use the power of God that is present in him, and asks for
things within the will of God and they are granted
How nice for the "mature believer".
__________________
peh
Teach me to be diligent but not impatient, teach me to be persistent but not
obstinate, teach me to be enthusiastic but not fanatic. Then, O God, I may be
worthy to teach.
peh
Senior
Member
Registered: Jun 2002
Location: south carolina
Posts: 114
DNATree
The thing that freaks out my
"common-sense" mind is that on a very amazing level, I understand
you, DNATree! 
You talk like my spirit thinks: in Word pictures and spiritual realities
blended together; the gist spiraled out for easy reading by my ordinary mind.
Thank you, I am copying and pasting so I can absorb it, and by His grace, be
able to feed it to my "babies" in easy bits.
__________________
peh
Teach me to be diligent but not impatient, teach me to be persistent but not
obstinate, teach me to be enthusiastic but not fanatic. Then, O God, I may be
worthy to teach.
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Peh,
For the spirit already knows what your heart desires and as I go into romance
in spirit it is to get in the spirit with that knowing. I used to pray as others
interpret praying yet without results. Then I learned to loose myself in the
moment. By making an area where I can listen to whatever music feels
Wonder-full. And lighting that allows me to focus on something Wonder-full. And
I would let go of thinking and first I would not be putting out requests but
just getting in the "joy of the lord" for the "joy of the
lord" is preimptive to bliss and bliss preimptive to romance in spirit.
Experiment with writing and catching all the most wonder------full thoughts and
words that may speak to me from the music or a bible passage or my own
experience. Collect wonder,, and experiment with Romance in spirit. By loosing
myself I am not praying help me with this big problem for the big problem is
already know by spirit. And the way of spirit is away from the problem and
toward the life. At first alone with no life I spent days like this at a time
and had the most wonderful experiences in spirit. Then once I got focused in
wonder I could take my altar with me in my heart and loose myself in wandering
and wonder. Prayer is not what interpretations say, it is lovemaking in the
soul, it is feeling my way respectful of timid spirits within myself. You must
loose your interpretation of prayer in order to find spiritual union.
It is not necessary to suffer but we veil ourselves and so when suffering
happens it points to a veil. Jumping for joy in that moment when you normally
react another way would change a smallest point in an equation. (Life is
intention, anything less is reaction) The more I stay in romance in spirit the
more I find that my moments work and that I grow like a flower unfolding, but
when I stray into bondage to interpretation or other than spirit I feel more
and more separate and veiled. So the jolt comes to take my heart to the place I
met you my life.
Throw away your interpretation of prayer and spend time in wonder.... then you
will be able to answer these questions yourself. For the word you seek is very
near to you, even in your mouth and in your heart and you do not need a
teacher.
Excellent spirit for recieving from God Peh..thank you for what your life
demonstrates here.
Last edited by DNATREE on 07-31-2002 at 07:58 PM
peh
Senior
Member
Registered: Jun 2002
Location: south carolina
Posts: 114
Ken and DNATree
I'm honored beyond words by your words of praise.
Thank you both for taking time to post them.
I learned this morning after I posted to Lydia that my mother had died at 5:25
am California time. I am on the east coast.
The "cracked" place in the spirit in which I wrote to Lydia served me
well in making it possible to feel my daughter's loss and find words to comfort
her. I am so grateful to my G-d and your G-d for making that part of this day.
Since I cannot go to California I am making this reply part of the
"farewell" ceremony for my mother, may G-d keep her in his arms
forever!
__________________
peh
Teach me to be diligent but not impatient, teach me to be persistent but not
obstinate, teach me to be enthusiastic but not fanatic. Then, O God, I may be
worthy to teach.
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
oh peh! 
I
am so sorry for your loss........ my prayers are with you and your family....
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
peh
Senior
Member
Registered: Jun 2002
Location: south carolina
Posts: 114
Ken
Ahh, Ken, I feel the warmth of the concern all the
way over here. And it feels SO good. May the G-d of all comfort comfort you
also!!!
__________________
peh
Teach me to be diligent but not impatient, teach me to be persistent but not
obstinate, teach me to be enthusiastic but not fanatic. Then, O God, I may be
worthy to teach.
BrookLaw
Senior
Member
Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Sunny CA (for now)
Posts: 743
Shalom and shalom peh,
I grieve with you for the loss of your mother this day. May G-d grant you and
yours peace and solace.
__________________
"If not for our good fortune that G-d has shown us the kindness of
accepting our repentance we would drown in the mud we have created in only a
few years."
---Chofetz Chaim
Lydia
Moderator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 3591
Peh:
May the peace that passes all understanding gaurd your heart and mind during
this time. It will be an honor and a priviledge to pray for you and your
family.
Hebrews 4:16
Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we
may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
I'll reserve continuing until you are ready. May the Lord strengthen you, know
that He will never leave or forsake you.
Lydia
__________________
"for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep
that which I have committed unto him against that day." 2 Tm. 1:12
Last edited by Lydia on 08-01-2002 at 04:28 AM
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
PEH,
Everywhere I walked yesterday thoughts of your situation kept coming in. I had
tears that after a time turned to joy. Blessed are the broken hearted for they
shall have tears of Joy. For I know the emptyness of such a loss but I also
know the power of such an emptyness as I am sure you do too. It is hard when
one is taken and we are left. And in such a group as this we are all broken by
one's loss. For we know it is the spirit working in us to see God's will. But
love grows like a tree in our hearts especially in such a spot of heart as this.
Some experiences yesterday,,, the movie dragonfly about such a loss and how the
spirit worked in a very mysterious way.
A song that had the words "the words of every sad song seem to say what I
think"
Come on (spirit) finish what you've started,, this ain't no way to leave the
broken hearted.
The white flower that shows up about mother. The Lilly.
I see great joy in spirit concerning you PEH
peh
Senior
Member
Registered: Jun 2002
Location: south carolina
Posts: 114
Dear DNATree
How kind of you to think of me, and how sweet the
visualizations you gave me. I am blessed.
__________________
peh
Teach me to be diligent but not impatient, teach me to be persistent but not
obstinate, teach me to be enthusiastic but not fanatic. Then, O God, I may be
worthy to teach.
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Peh,
I would like to leave this writing I wrote in 1994, I think it is appropriate
here. I had to cut some out to make it fit.
These are the words that express the love affair between the writer and his
God. If any other should read these it should be consumed as fruit. Eaten and
the parts that are not understood are let go of and passed on. Perhaps you
might keep these crazy memoirs locked in your dresser drawer until that day
your heart is broken. Until then you may not understand the babblings of this
fool. In that day this instrument will reveal itself on the strings of your
heart in a way you will not be able to comprehend, yet you will feel. Let that
day come as a theif in the night. Stephen Tree Wild Hearts Wild hearts can't be
broken Wild hearts can't be broken Was love the pain that started all this Was
it the cause that drew the first kiss Or is it the reason I wanted her so My
blood runs hot but she already knows This is my passion play This is my passion
play The preacher and lawyer have taken my bride By their law she's made to
abide Is this the reason that I died It's love across time get ready for the
ride This is my passion play This is my passion play The trauma and loneliness
of loosing family and children circumcised my heart and shattered my soul.
Feeling the pieces revealed a life of romance in spirit that fullfilled all
scripture. Each experience over a three year period revealed more and more of
what I had longed to understand my whole life. This is the story of You and I.
For there is only you and I and when the veil of this flesh is lifted we are
one. In the beginning I was called Adam.(Which means Earth) I was alone and
like a dream you came out of me.(Eve which means "MY LIFE") In my
loneliness, in my bewilderness, through my broken heart you came, my love. You
said: You thought you were alone when you let your tears fall But I was in your
heart The vacuum that draws me to you. In my loneliness I found her, I found
myself, and it was then that I knew that she had always been with me. She was
my heart. Ark of the covenant She came back to me my "Dream Box" And
it feels like the first time, like the springtime She is more than woman nor
man She's MY heart and I can't help but love her She She is life She is my wife
She came out from me in the beginning We were one in the beginning She is dream
I am dreamer I have been to heaven and I have seen what it will be. It's us
living as one eternally Though now you may not see, through the veil separating
"the you" and "the me." You see my love, there is only You
and I Even if we speak of us and them And though you call yourself conservative
and I am called liberal Or you liberal and I conservative Or I the bridegroom
and you the bride When the veil of interpretation is lifted or even torn We
will be one What power draws the two back together again. It is the heart which
is a rose, and the fragrance draws the love you seek. As the altar of incense
that stands before the veil between the two houses. The holy place and holy of
holies. The fragrance of the heart joins the two together. I want to be your
honeybee, won't you be my appletree It's the fragrance of your heart that draws
me to you Let the seaswells rise into the air Let the mountains crumble, we
don't care I just want to be your honeybee And you can be my appletree I'll be
your prince, your wizard, your lion of Judah Anything you want, I can bring it
to ya! There is so much the lover wishes to say to his bride. How beautiful you
are behind the veil.(The flesh. The words are as mere points in the equation
whereas the spirit I wish to offer is the entire equation. This spirit I speak
of is that of human, both male and female, being torn over and over (dieing
daily) by the apparant pain of life. Yet confident that something is there..
like a mother to comfort when I come out from this womb. Unwilling to accept
what man (flesh and blood) has interpreted life to be. Unrelenting in this
quest, as though it were another within me or an emptyness designed for this
task. Like seeing her eyes (life, she) in a crowded train station and knowing
you knew her before yet unable to pinpoint the when. Until one day the
coincidences begin that take me on a long journey within myself. Unable to
communicate this to anyone without pushing myself further to wearing the purple
robe of fool. Yet where it leads within is worth the price of loneliness, and
makes use of that pain as though it were the very door to heaven. After twelve
years of these coincidences occuring. A dramatic experience happens that shattered
my soul. Feeling the pieces reveal a life of romance in spirit that fullfills
all scribbling by scribes. It began when I lost my love, my wife, my dream box,
and feeling that I would never find the joy I had with her. I longed for her
return. She did return but as the life we all had known and lost millenia ago,
she is is life, she is my wife. You see, she really never left me for it was
God loving me all along. It was "The Passion Play". Ark of the
Covenant You came back to me my little dream box And it feels like the first
time Like the springtime Your more than woman nor man Your my heart And I can't
help but love you My love, my life Even though you sley me Yet do I love you
Bust my hymen Tear the veil of my heart And reveal the secrets The true
circumcision is of the heart Tares and wheat The veil of interpretation is what
hides you from me my love We should never feel shame Or blame RE-MEMBER the
pain in the garden You chose to live alone and hide yourself behind your tears
Like a veil you have hidden yourself from me I waited, I waited at the door of
our house But you would not take me back Why does she hide herself from me!!
Re-member the covenant we share Re-member we created the sunrise to remind us
TO START NEW! You see my love all relationship consists of "You and
I". Even if we are talking of us and them. Groups contending with groups
or individuals cooperating or divorcing. There is only you and I, my love And
though you call yourself conservative And I am called liberal Or you liberal and
I conservative Or I the bridegroom and you the bride When the veil of
interpretation (That which separates being interpretation) When this veil is
lifted or even torn We will be one This illusion of duality This veil (flesh)
is the perishable part, the outer layer of the snake is what will be shed, the
outer form of the Cameo blooms but a short season. You and I will stand before
each other naked yet without shame. As it was in the beginning my love. Now we
see through a glass dimly. This love will unite those who were formally afar
off. Eve your name means life you came out from me in the beginning. There
seems to be that which I call inside myself and that which I call outside
myself. Where do I end and you begin. The smallest of points will soon altar the
largest of equations and render all the interpretations meaningless. Thus
lifting the veil between you and I. When you feel, feel with all the layers of
heart. Don't think girl, feel, therin is your power. Thinking is as considering
points in an equation yet I am unaware of the synergy of their combination. You
may consider few points at a time yet you can feel every layer of the depth and
heigth and width. The heart is a rose and the fragrance can draw anything your
heart desires. Clear the table of your mind it appears to have conflicting
forms on it because of empty interpretation. Remove the veil with your love. I
am always at the door waiting and I will love you in any form you desire. Turn
around brite eyes. (Total eclipse of the heart) Your interpretations are the
veil. You must give up your life in order to gain it. You must loose control in
order to find it. I got up from my bed feeling lost and alone. I went out on
the street looking for the one my heart adores. (Song of Soloman) Have you seen
my love I cry out feeling this deep emptiness. Moments later I have forgotten
everything for something has taken my heart and I am again found. Life seems to
be that I constantly loose myself and find myself in a completly new way over
and over again. Again in this moment the poetry begins to flow and again I am
found. My life is hidden in you. In you I have my being, and move, and live.
Our love is poetry in motion. You thought you were alone when you let your
tears fall. But you were in my heart the vacuum that drew you to me. Let my
anger tear the veil which lies between you and I, for to put the wrath on you
is to be angry at ones self. This is the cycle of pain. This veil
(interpretation) is not part of us. It was the clothes we were handed at birth.
Meant to wear until we found each other, my love. Then we are clothed in glory.
When I look at you I look past this veil,.. and see myself. Then who you
are,...who I am,...who we are is clear. (Think of the pain and loneliness of
the young lion as he peers into the pool.(Lion King) I remember now that when I
found you, I was to leave my father and my mother, and cling to you.
Individual, on either side of the veil. Without interpretation, with nothing
but the emptyness that is individual. Naked before each other (unveiled) they
are the same, they are one. The ones emptyness is filled by the others
fullness, here is the mystery of ecstacy. This truth is all of this and more.
You, you my love are wonder-ful. This is the key to more. When you think you
have finished unveiling this mystery, I swear, you have just begun. It has not
entered into the mind of man that which is prepaired for you, my
love.(NT,bible) I do not speak of what you will read here. No, this is a shadow
of the love affair that is the experience of this man. You are a completely new
expression and if you are aware of what you are experiencing then you are aware
you were carried on eagles wings to this meeting between you and I. The true
romance, the true worship will be at the door of YOUR spirit. How beautiful you
are behind the veil. Tablernackle (OT,bible) The original intent, A thin veil
is hottest isn't it baby. What shall I liken this love affair to: It is like
the steps of a blind man that are met by plateaus. This love is like the groove
the needle rides, Rock me in the groove. Heaven is like you and I in love, no
words are necessary, it is unspoken. Yet all is said. Heaven is in puddles,
like a squirrel in the woods unseen until she spirit moves, then she is
distinguished from the backround. Like the wind when she moves you hear it.
Deut 30:14 For the word you seek is very near to you, even in your mouth and in
your heart. She comes to me in many forms, and in poetry and syncronicity When
he and she meet they KNOW!!! it is right They dance like waves on an ocean of
romance He builds a house from the bottom up She cleans it from the top down
When he and she meet they know it is right She She is life She is my wife I
have been joined with her She and I were one in the beginning She came out from
me in the beginning she is my dream I am dreamer He builds the house from the
ground up she cleans it from the top down when he and she meet they know it is
right What is the momentum of all that I AM? I am relationship. I am the
joining of two houses. Remember the pattern in the wilderness. Exodus 25:9 He
builds a physical house, she creates a spiritual. She and I, You and I. There
is only you and I, my love. Ohh baby when we touch the honesty is to much, and
I have to close my eyes and hide. Moses veiled his face from me on the
mountain. He had to veil himself from the people. At the reading of
interpretation a veil came over all their eyes. If my face were suddenly
unveiled, you would surely die.(change) I promised you in the beginning. I hid
from you in the garden. I am the desires of your heart. Relationship, the
fragrance that draws the honeybee to the appletree. Spirit to form. Consider
for a moment the fragrance of our love.
Last edited by DNATREE on 08-03-2002 at 10:54 PM
peh
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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: south carolina
Posts: 114
Dear DNATree
You are brave to share your writing with us. I'm
not sure I grasped the full meaning you intended but this one sentence struck
me as being especially full of meaning concerning the relationship between the
believer and God:
quote:
I am the desires of your heart
My prayer for you and all of His beloved children is that we might find Him Who
seeks us; whether in joy, or in a broken and contrite heart and spirit, may we
find Him Whom our souls love.
__________________
DNATREE
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Posts: 222
Because it is a written record and so many are
speaking of what they have not experienced but read. The resurrection seems
only valid when you have actually experienced it. Out of that experience
(testimony) you are capable of overcoming. So it does not matter wether it
happened or not, just that it happens to you. Let the presumtuous go in their
closet and find it before they preach it.
DNATREE
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So far removed from the original spirit when these
things were happening and so many self appointed priests having interpreted in
2000 yrs, so I know that I should read it but stay away from the
interpretations waiting only for the spirit to reveal what cannot be figured out.
Even if it seems it can be figured out, it is obvious from the many
interpretations that it is not to be figured out by interpretation but rather
when you find your back against the wall and no way out, that experience that
occurs that in itself says "If God be for you, who (including christians)
can be against you". And when the spirit reveals to your spirit that the
meaning of what has been written is for a myramid of intentions and creations
by our fathers and by ourselves, and, that in my own pain and separatness I did
have it spoken by my life in the very moments of my daily experiences what it
is that is separating me from that Spirit of God. And finding the very thing
that I was instructed as a child to worship was actually an interpretation that
was the cause of the separation. (Veil) And in understanding this I was led to
be (born again) each day in the newness of spirit having died to that law
(interpretation) but alive to the spirit in each moment. For in the moment
having one thing taken and leaving an emptyness I found what it is that fills
each moment and with what it fills so that it was given me in the moment poetry
to remember the spirit of that moment as spoken by the spirit. Blessed is she
(spirit, life, those that despitfully used me) that nailed me to this tree!
(dnatree)
DNATREE
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Let's say that you found spirit, and spirit
revealed in the book the smallest of points that the interpretations of the day
overlooked. And this smallest of points changed every point (made all things
new) that you were taught by the interpretations and in fact this point that
was shown you was spirit itself. Now those that reason having experienced this
would understand it reasonably. But those that have not it would be reasonable
that they had not recognised this although the book they reason with demands
that there faith is not in the book but in the spirit.
As those that went before us, I must limit (humble myself) myself to your
reality to speak to you. (pre spirit christians) They do not know of the box
they are in.
Every scribe which is instructed
unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which
bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
DNATREE
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Posts: 222
Jesus in the spirit said "Only those that the
father gives me hear my voice" Wether a spirit is of God or of
interpretation is known by the fruit, but speaking in parables so that they
could not see, they being the veiled. So because one man recognises spirit and
another calls it foosishness was this not the same for Jesus. So it is the good
pleasure of spirit to draw one to water, and if this be water from spirit will
not the spirit lead the thirsty to the water. So you see like a tree I offer
this fruit but it is the work of spirit to lead the seeker to water. The tree
knows the intent of fruit and of seed. I would that you believe spirit before
you believe me. For to the interpretors who do not know that the virgin is
pregnant they see it as foolishness that she hungers for pickles and icecream,
but is it right for her to listen to them or to continue to ALLOW that
emptyness to be filled with what she knows within spirit will satisfy. If you
love the letter (law and interpretations) more than spirit than you will die by
that letter without ever living, but if you love spirit you will die to the
letter (interpretations) and be alive to spirit, being led beyond what
satisfies the dead. First tell Jesus that he was wrong in speaking in such a
way that only those in spirit could understand, then maybe spirit would reveal
another way for it to be done since man's wisdom feels they are right. But for
now I cannot but offer it as it has been given to me, so am I to change what
was given so that it looks like an interpretation, or leave it full of wonder
as spirit gave it? Consider also that what is coming will reveal why these
things are veiled to some, but now in there interpretations to some I am
anti-christ, but then those that speak of spirit having experienced spirit seem
to have less trouble seeing the greater intent of the heart.
Last edited by DNATREE on 06-30-2002 at 10:46 PM
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
Actually you have mixed 2
verses together... you said:
"Only those that the father gives me hear my voice"
(John 6:37 NNAS) "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one
who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
And there are 4 other verses that deal with "my voive", but it seems
likely you were referring to
(John 10:27 NNAS) "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they
follow Me;
Cut here…………………..
DNATREE
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Thankyou Ken,
But actually I leave the burden of proof to spirit for I am not referring to a
verse as to the letter of a book but to a spirit when I said "only those
that the father gives me hear my voice" For though it is true that both
things were written in two spots the spirit is that which I wrote. It is nice
that you have found that the complete spirit of what I said was found in two
verses. You see it is also true of that spirit that those that are drawn are
those that spirit led, and also it is true that they are they that would hear
"my voice" but to those that "hear" it was not Jesus or
DNATREE that they are listening to "but they know when they hear
spirit" And so when you are reading the book (bible) it is not Jesus or
Peter or Moses that you hear or that you are seeking. So when you say "it
is not clear what verse you are referring to" I am not refering to a verse
but a spirit for the mystery surrounding what is really sacred will soon separate
verse and spirit bone and marrow. Lastly it will soon be common knowledge that
judgeing spirit by scripture is a stumbling block but those that have found
spirit judge spirit by spirit and spirit will in the end fullfill every jot and
tittle of the book some worship as God. So for now I can only say what my life
has said and of course it will not match some theology interpretations. You see
I have not condemned when I said that out of the mouth of what is called
christian has their own end come. For in truth spirit sees the good intent of
each heart and there is much good in your and my "working out our
salvation with much awe and passion" but of course the words as they were
translated were a slightly different spirit. Hmmm wonder how the spirit got changed
in the book, could it be a fearful interpretor that translated awe of God to
make it something awefull or terrible. So you see though I read the book and I
too was to first interpret it as the fearful for I too experienced that. When I
began to have experiences in spirit they were not terrible but full of awe and
wonder. And what seemed to be important in the spirit was not what was picked
to be important by those that wished to "Lord it over me". The spirit
only saw as though I was already perfect, so I guess the one Jesus in the
spirit accomplished what he set out to do. But is he so proud that once done it
was not offered free. Or must I first pay Jesus homage rather than the true
savior which was the spirit that was in him. You see have I not glorified only
spirit in all that I have written, you see that is my intent. For it was man's
interpretations that made the glory go to "who is right". And so I
don't have to be right for spirit avenges my heart.
You see Ken, though you think that it was not YOU and I that have dealt with
interpretations before and the outcome was much different. For once the
interpretors argued the world was flat because that was what the
interpretations said that the scriptures said. And inventors such as my father
were killed because the scripture said that messing with things like
electricity was not what God wanted us to do. Now in these days we are past
that and the interpretors from that day are dead but the invention that they
declared was not scriptual lives on. Was not it the interpretation of scripture
that was the stumbling block in all of these instances before. But now in this
day the interpretors know better they think. But in the age to come all
interpretation will end, and tongues and knowledge but the spirit which is the
WORD of God will endure. And what of those interpretations that were so right
and each generation men were killed and told how wrong they were. Those
interpretations along with the interpretors are dead! But the spirit of the one
that saw past the veil of interpretation (inventor, writer, man of faith not of
interpretation) lived on past the interpretations. So what I am saying is that
"judge a tree by it's fathers" for Jesus saw that the Pharasees were
not of their father Abraham (who was not of interpretation but of faith in
spirit) or of Moses (who did not go out into the wilderness to find an
interpretation but a spirit) But the Pharasees were of there father the law,
the interpretation, the established right way as was written, the snake was
their father for the snake is writing over time that losses the spirit because
of the fearful controllers that interpreted. You can tell when spirit died in
what is called church when it was the romans that were no longer the killers
but the christians were the crusaders and they started killing because of their
interpretation. Is this how the father/son of christianity accomplished his
intent? It is a worldly mind that believes God would not trick the world by
letting such interpretations change the whole spirit for the very Chosen were
not spared in 60 AD when the temple and the nation were scattered. But in this
time all will be accomplished in a short time and the right people that even
when they persecuted the inventor seemed sanctioned by God but though those
interpretors died believing they were right and the inventor died having left
an invention to live on but he was shamed, in time spirit avenged the heart and
we now know that the interpretor was wrong. But all things are changing faster
and by 2012 what we all believe will be changed by the smallest of points
overlooked by the builders.
There is a reason why I cannot "give an interpretation" for
"what spirit is" for not having experienced spirit it would be
misinterpreted. But I will say this that many synchronicities have been written
on this website www.stephentree.com
that explain aspects of spirit's nature within my reality and these layering
and growing in relationship to my life and spirit can be seen as a tree that
grew overtime. And this tree cannot be described except that it grow in you.
All my past interpretations were as the grass and the thornbushes that when the
fire (time of trouble in my own life came) these burned up and the tree
remained. So you see my faith is not based on something I read or heard or
chose to believe but on the continued layering of days in awe of my own life
and the spirit as manefested in the synchronicities. So when they ask
"what spirit" I must say that as they would not understand my father
Lewis C. Spence (inventor) but I understand him because I know him. So they who
do not know the spirit (heavenly father) will not know whom I speak, for it is
in the relationship with that spirit as I experienced it at the edge of death
and in the mundane moments of each day that makes me know of whom I speak and
that it is of God. I am sure the interpretors have an interpretation for why it
was written in days of old that when a man lay with his wife it was that he KNEW
her. For nothing is created in spirit but that you know her. But the spirit
that created interpretations is disjointed and it is really a theory as it does
not fit from beginning to end but the poetry of life (spirit) fits across the
board from the relationship of husband and wife to you and I to us and them to
God and man. For spirit was in poetry she before it was he and it was for that
reason that a man KNEW his wife.
As for what name is this spirit, you have heard it said "his name is
wonderful" and "his name is councelor" but the original intent
of name like under any other name was not given you do not know what the
original spirit of NAME is. For name did not exist before spirit and name
separated spirit as all language "name giving" did. So if what we
mean by the Name Jesus no longer has the same spirit as when it was when he was
walking the planet then the name has lost the spirit and it is only an empty
shell such as a body without a spirit is no longer Joe. But a day is as a
thousand years to God so it is the morning of the third day, and though he lay
dead in the tomb of interpretation this spirit is to rise again and put away
the power of the snake forever.
Last edited by DNATREE on 07-02-2002 at 09:58 PM
DNATREE
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Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Hi Smaller,
I have been on a trip to see my daughter Raine so I could not answer until now.
You say that the problem as you see it is DEPARTURE FROM THE WORD. But you see
it is christianity that has departed. For all that claim that others departed
from the word have departed from the word for the word is not scripture. Jesus
indicated that there would be those that take the veils from the foot of the
cross and put them on as if they could imitate the spirit that was in Jesus. But
just as the faith of Moses and Abraham were different from the manefestation of
faith in Jesus so you are to be a new creature, and it is made obvious who it
is that is putting on the clothes left behind and who it is that recieves a
garment from spirit. For the word is not the word that was... that is
scripture. But the word of God as spoken through the prophet Elijah, or through
Stephentree, or through one filled with true spirit will not appear as one that
put on garments from the foot of the cross. For a new creature is he who dwells
in spirit and leaves the old behind. You see any one point along the way that
was changed would leave interpretation which many believe to be God
meaningless. So the chances that the interpretors of this generation are correct
is impossible. But one born of spirit is as one that has let all that go and
speaks only of what spirit has given.
You say our separations are caused by sin... but the word sin was derived by
the word separation (from God and each other) And it is interpretation that is
separating us, God and man. Yes the SCRIPTURE does tell us that over and over,
but scripture is an idol if it is made to be the WORD. For which would you
follow the word from God or the interpretation of scripture which man demands you
believe to be the word of God for us now, so they can use this word in any way
to control others. I have shown that the smallest of points changes the
equation and meaning of scripture so that one using it to control others is
meaningless. But that you have the power of God manefested in your life that
would sway more than the dead retoric of christianity.
I do understand how the masses that have not been crushed by spirit could
believe that scripture was the word of God as the interpretors of past ages have
set it up to be. But if God were to reveal to you that the word of God is alive
in you and not in a book (except that spirit reveal a meaning thereof) then you
would follow that word would you not? Now without telling me what the book says
about scripture being profitable, tell me where it indicates the word of God to
be a book. A scroll also is pointing to DNA spiral. For the book does insist
that the word of God is in your mouth and in your heart, and that the word of
God as spoken by the prophets was the word of God, but if the book said that
the writings of scripture were to be the word of God (for this generation) and
that spirit would make it so then the children of the fathers of interpretation
would have a case but it does not!
But under the false assumtion that the book is the word of God many evils have
been done against others and many more will be done. For the SON OF MAN has
endured three days (one day is as a thousand years, morning of third day is
upon us) and will rise again and put away the power of the interpretors that
have been separating men. I am going to post (Does Scripture Decay) and speak
more of this on this forum. I also am going into spirit about this forum to
create a seed which will change many things in the lives of those participating.
For then it will reveal the splitting to the marrow over what is spirit and
what is the intent of each heart. Many will be glad, and many will have their
heart's intent revealed.
DNATREE
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Posts: 222
I am not trying to get you to accept another
interpretation (this one being by me) I am showing the futility of interpreting
by reading or thinking. Only keeping belief empty until spirit fills it in a
way that I know that my "interpretation" is from God and right for
ME. It is how I show the need for spirit rather than
"interpretations" handed us by the last generation. By leaving belief
empty until spirit explains it would allow reading (being baptised in the words
of the book) but the baptism of spirit is of spirit not of the words, and it
will fulfill the book but not at all as it has been interpreted by the
religions or the generations before us.
DNATREE
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Registered: Jan 2002
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Posts: 222
Ken,
If a child were to reason why their parents get divorced most often they would
come to the wrong conclusion without an adult helping them with it. If a child
does not understand that the food is not prepared yet they might cry, then he
would need an adult to explain the process of food preparation.(AND THE WORK OF
SPIRIT) And if the child still does not understand then the child would have to
trust what the parent says is true. In the same manner what we think we
understand about scripture and the past (history) would be influenced by the other
youngsters on the planet and without consulting the "spirit of the
father" we would find ourselves like unruly adolescents "going
astray" as christianity has in the past 2000 yrs. So it is the job of
spirit to "lead the child of God into all truth". After learning from
spirit, I have found how easy it is without spirit to believe any current or
fashion of understanding. But what is the chance that the fashion or current of
thought is of God? I too believed in the fashion of the church until spirit
took hold of me and then all that was written concerning him that spirit would
take hold of was experienced but it was at the hand of christians that my
stripes were recieved. The irony of it was the understanding that comes from
being in such a position. Now what I have spoken has been very misunderstood by
many on this board for you say that what if two were to recieve two different
experiences leading to two separate truths could they both be right for them.
Yes, that is what is intended between the liver cell and the kidney cell. For
both started with the same foundation but because of their position in the body
they were to become two separate NEW CREATURES. Now this would scare the
worldly mind of the modern christian not knowing the work of the spirit. For what
I have spoken of on this forum was the foundation given by spirit that would
lead you to anything your heart desires, and God would sanctify it and make it
right. But without knowing spirit one would think this foolishness. No Ken the
job of scripture was to convict, the job of spirit is to fill, so you having
believed the job of scripture is to fill might fill that which spirit alone is
to. Why is it such a stretch of the imagination to believe that the worldly
interpretors of the past that protestants rejected would have made a mistake
about the difference between scripture and the Word of God for the Word of God
once written is not the word of God without the original spirit as given to
Elijah, or John the Baptist, or Jesus. You believe that the churches have the
spirit correct of the scripture therefore it is still the word of God. Not
knowing that God is Spirit one might believe that the understanding given to
the words of scripture is the same spirit, but I tell you it is only an idol
blocking the door. Before writing, in order to understand the suttleness of
spirit man made idols from their experience in spirit and later generations
misinterpreted, therefore it was written that you should not make an idol. But
not understanding the true spirit of that man when writing came along thought
that they could preserve the true spirit in the words but alas I tell you the
true spirit is in your mouth and in your heart, and the spirit given to the
words of 2000 years ago by this generation is ANTICHRIST!
THE SMALLEST OF POINTS WILL SOON ALTER THE LARGEST OF ALGORYTHUMS AND RENDER
ALL THE INTERPRETATIONS MEANINGLESS, THUS REMOVING THE VEIL BLOCKING THE DOOR
BETWEEN YOU AND I ON THIS PLANET.
As long as you believe the lie that scripture is the word of God you would not
look for the word of God in your experience. You would be full already if the
scripture were the word of God. But it cannot be for God is not the author of
such confusion. If you find the word of God it would reveal the true nature of
scripture and interpretation.
Last edited by DNATREE on 07-19-2002 at 07:14 PM
DNATREE
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Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
The Christian Abomination that is
coming
The abomination that will cause desolation
Religion is where the fearful and unbelieving hide themselves behind a veil,
but in the end religion and the fearful will perish. For spirit indicates that
"Isreal" is "one man that struggles between man and God and
overcomes"
If you were to hear Jesus speak of how the message that he was conveying would
change in spirit until you had what was to be called the abomination that will
cause the desolation of mankind, and the abomination of the original Intent.
This could easily be seen at the time of Jesus because even though those around
him were right there with him they did not comprehend the spirit. So like the
twelve always signifies they began to interpret what Jesus meant,,, and then
years later (300plus years) men far removed from Jesus and that original spirit
were trying to tie down the interpretation by selecting which letters and
writings would be kept and called a new testiment. Now if a group of men in
modern times were to do that and then say that this (these letters and writings
were to be viewed as "THE MOST HOLY WORD OF GOD you would laugh at them
and say well I will perhaps read them but I know that if it differs from the
original spirit then it would only cause an obomination of that original
spirit, therefore I would be left with the words of Jesus which speak exactly
of that abomination spirit and how that it would come to be. But because
Jesus's words are in there with it you try to make it all fit into an
interpretation (an abomination) Because when the truth that Jesus was talking
about returns, those that worship the abomination that Christianity has become
will do the greatest of separations as they themselves believe that the words
of scripture are the word of God. But he who overcomes will know that though
christians believe that Jesus would not trick the sheep like that,,, it is for
a very good reason. For the only way to make straight the way of the lord is to
remove the abomination that is blocking the door between the two houses.. (the
veil) But because they believe it sacred and indead they believe it to be the word
of God, they will blindly refuse as their mirrors of other religions are
seemingly stupid in their unwillingness to let go of their abomination and find
spirit within them.. which would lead to such a fullfillment anyway. But don't
believe me.. but do believe Jesus,,, For if you really believed his words you
would have been crushed and hated by the right people (self rightious,,
according to their interpretation of a book. And you would not recognise real
faith that is of God though apart from the law)
You see the smallest of points,, will soon altar the interpretation rendering
all the so called Christian interpretations meaningless. The only way to find
God is within,,, and if 6 billion people find him it will be in 6 billion ways,
for God is much bigger than the box that christians put him in. Yes it is the
fulfillment of scripture... but not via interpretation.. but by spirit. For to
know the spirit is to see beyond that veil. Soon we will find out if the
fearfull masses that call themselves christians indeed love their
interpretation more than they do each other,,, or for that matter, more than
they love ME.. The least of the breatheren! So sure they are right that they
now demand all worship their interpretation which will soon perish with them.
Many that do not know me or Jesus think that I pull my interpretation from the
air... but those in the spirit know from whom all things come. Enjoy your
rightness,, and the moment you have in the firing seat, where since you are so
obviously right that you don't even hear what others say.. no.. it is merely
your turn (senior elite,, cheif,, christian) to laugh and say how foolish
others seem to be, why can't they see what is WRITTEN in front of their eyes.
Love your interpretations,,, because they will be changed,, in a moment,,, in a
twinkling of an eye.. And the truth you have demanded was right will perish as
your life also will. But if you actually find find the spirit Jesus was talking
of, you will overcome all churches and interpretations, and there will only be,
You and I, my life.
No we are too smart for that... it escapes their notice that never have the
religious been right. Religion is not the path, prayer in a closet is.
zadok
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according to the scripture, from which we are
drawing the phrase, the abomination that causes desolation directly refers to
satan, as false messiah, standing upon mount zion, claiming to be jesus christ.
the son of perdition sitting in the temple of god claiming to be god.
this abomination causes world-wide spiritual desolation as the world and the
church whore after "another jesus"; thinking themselves to "be a
queen" marrying the king, they will in fact become the whore of confusion,
shown in revelation
believing the kingdom of peace has come, they will all begin to say
"peace! peace! where there is no peace" and "when they shall
begin to say, peace! peace! then sudden destruction cometh upon them"
the elect gathering to mount zion to pour out the bowls of god's wrath upon the
kingdom of the false messiah
DNATREE
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Like the smallest of points that changes the entire
equation this thread has been altered by one word that changes it's meaning.
The original title that I posted with that was modified by someone was (The
abomination of INTERPRETATION that will cause desolation) And the fullfillment
of what you also indicated is exactly what I am saying IS HAPPENING AS WE SPEAK
but they will not believe it is interpretation that causes the desolation. So
it would be better that you have no interpretation and run and get your heart
broken (circumcised) that you might tear through those layers of your heart and
find the truth. A broken and contrite heart will be had by everyone soon.
Believing that God is coming to make you right because of your interpretation.
But at that time many will ask that the mountains just fall on them for the
broken heart that they posses will burn up all interpretation and everything
that is not of spirit. And then will a great outpouring come to those that
believe beyond that to the spirit and all will be fulfilled. But to those that
cling to interpretation it will be as a falling away, yet those that repent and
let go of interpretation spirit will fulfill the scripture to the last jot and
tittle but not as anything they have imagined. For thus will be the lesson of
interpretation and "no fleshly interpretation will glory" but on that
which comes from spirit will SAVE you. Thus making real whaty each christian
has spoken with their lips, and reconciling those on this planet that seem far
away in interpretation but that the "right people" have killed
because of the interpretation being different. Upon this generation will all
the wrath of the abomination of interpretation be poured out in that they
feeling right by their own interpretation (rightiousness) have put to death billions
such as the savages and the pagans, but had they recognised spirit they would
have recognised them, though different in interpretation, yet they spoke only
of spirit and not interpretation. For each have heard them speak of the GREAT
SPIRIT that made all things, and provides all things, but you did not recognise
that that was the same, HOLY SPIRIT that made all things , and provides all
things. Cling to the illusion of being right and you too will perish along with
the veil that is about to be removed.
zadok
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that is an interesting understanding. i must admit
that, while i believe i am grasping the fundamentals of the statement, i may be
a bit lost toward the culmination of interpretation presented.
however, as i am understanding it, i believe it opens up quite a paradox.
for you see, you made this statement,
"Cling to the illusion of being right and you too will perish along with
the veil that is about to be removed."
now, this begs the question, "do you think you are right?"
you must think you are right, else, why would you be making assertations that
you consider to be "truth"
as for me, i am of the mind that scripture is right. it is the word of the LORD
and the LORD is always right.
in this sense, i may say with certainty that "god is love" and that i
am right in that statement and anyone who claims, "god is not love" i
may say to them, "you are wrong", and my judgement of errency is
true.
however, i am wondering, "are you right"?
it seems to me that you have trapped yourself in a paradigm in which there can
be only wrong.
for, if you answer, "yes, i am right", then, haven't you negated your
entire premise which is against those that are "right"?
if you answer, "no, i am wrong" then you are again wrong.
how do you reconcile this paradox?
i will admit that i may be misunderstanding your statement, though i will also
ask, "who is right?"
if no one is "right" then, of course everyone is wrong, including
you, which makes everyone "right"
quite a paradox
DNATREE
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What I am saying is it is not important to be right
as in the spirit, so it is not important if I am right just that I am in the
spirit and if spirit decides to make me right then that is for her good purpose
for apart from spirit I know I am unable to see truthfully what is in front of
me. If you look for someone to be right that you might follow them you will
likewise perish. I speak of whom the source is not what the interpretation
should be, for in reality there is no interpretation, but ask anything of the
father, believing, but without spirit what is believable. I just got your post
and will answer more later but gotta run to brunch with the girlfriend right
now. (Consider however that Jesus's interpretation was not from scripture but
completely from spirit, yet it fit, fulfilled scripture and he was made right
because of faith not because he had the right interpretation.) So now do you
believe that you can be made right be interpretation?
zadok
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have a pleasant brunch.
as for your question, though i will admit , though i believe i am interpreting
it correctly, i may be mistaken.
as for being made "right", it is my understanding that only the LORD
can do that for someone. to make them "morally right" so to speak. as
for if you are asking "do you think your understanding of scripture is
correct"/ then i would have to say, yes, according to the understanding
given to me, my understanding of scripture is correct.
by, i do not think this understanding makes me "right" morally
speaking, but "right" concerning "what is truth"?
not to say, i know everything. but what i know, i suppose i know.
however, i can see what you mean by what you are saying, i believe, and i would
agree with it to the most part.
it seems most are concerned with being "right" in interpretation. but
it is my understanding that there are those that are "right" yet,
unconcerned with "being right".
but it wouldn't be prudent to "throw out the baby with the bath
water" so to speak
but i understand this is a deep subject with myriad points of perception from
which to grasp the underlying principle.
dmac5
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Posts: 497
Ya know, I don't think I have the gift of
interpreting tongues, as I don't think I understood what you were trying to
point out. I don't recall you stating that Jesus is the ONLY way to GOD, nor
that Jesus Christ is Lord. For only by the Spirit can a man say Jesus Christ is
Lord, and from your lengthy conversation, I didn't perceive you to have this
Spirit. Perhaps you can slow down and collect your thoughts a bit more
concisely, maybe add some coherency to go along with it? I think you confuse
the love of the Word and the desire to know what it says, among us, as being
religious and not spiritual? It is the desire of our Lord that we meet and
discuss his Word that we might understand how to keep it and be like those in
the church at Philadelphia. We would wish it to be said of us" because
thou hast kept my Word, I will keep thee from the hour of trial...". It
seems, and I say seems as I am having trouble following your point, that you
come here, spouting off that we won't listen to another viewpoint, yet one
would think that you would state the viewpoint before tearing into us for not
listening. Why are you so angry?
DNATREE
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While I was on my trip to see my daughter I was
given this walking around El Paso about your comment, "why are you so
angry?"
It is not that I have confused as much as perhaps you are confused.
For you percieve me angry when I am being adamant about my intent.
So let me ask you,,,, was Jesus angry when he cleared the temple, or was he
adamant? And if he was angry, with what anger was he angry?
Last edited by DNATREE on 07-17-2002 at 10:43 PM
dmac5
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By "In the Spirit" what exactly are you
referring to? To me, being in the Spirit, is begun by accepting Jesus Christ as
Lord and Savior. This is spiritual salvation. The second phase is walking with
God, doing those things that are building gold, silver, precious stones upon
the foundation of faith in Christ. That is salvation of the soul, in which we
are co laborers with God. The third phase of salvation is having our bodies
transformed and glorified. In short, being "in the Spirit" is doing
the WORKS of the SPIRIT, for faith without WORKS is dead.
Now, as to being right. I take it you mean right as in correct in interpreting
what has been written. It is absolutely essential to have the correct
understanding of the Word. Eve was enticed to sin because she did not have the
correct understanding of what God said. God told her "in the day you eat
of it, you shall surely die". When speaking to the serpent, Eve adds
"neither shall ye touch it". By not knowing EXACTLY what was said,
she left herself open to believing a lie. Her understanding was that she would
die if she touched it. Therefore, when she did not die, upon touching the
fruit, she could consider all of what God said to be false, for she did not die
physically upon touching the fruit.
And again, satan used scripture in an attempt to trick Jesus to sin. Jesus was
able to withstand the temptation, because He is the Word made flesh. His
understanding of the Word was and is perfect.
I will agree that being in the Spirit is important, but having an exact
understanding of what is written empowers that walking in the Spirit. Here is
what is said to the church at Philadelphia;
Rev3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no
man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and
hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan,
which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to
come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the
hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell
upon the earth.
Keeping the WORD should be our goal, both in thought and in deed. An inconsise
understanding of the Word is what will lead many astray. Strong delusion is
coming. It is said, of the one who is coming, that he would deceive the very
elect, if that were possible. Therefore, we all should be studying to show
ourselves approved, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the
Word of Truth.
Here is what is said of those who are rich in spiritual things but weak in
understanding of the Word, which leads to a failure of application. First,
their compliment from Paul;
1Cor1:4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is
given you by Jesus Christ; 5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all
utterance, and in all knowledge; 6 Even as the testimony of Christ was
confirmed in you: 7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming
of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye
may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Now, the chastisement;
1Cor3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto
carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with
meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and
divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of
Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? 5 Who then is Paul, and
who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to
every man?
These Corinthian believers fell behind in no spiritual gift, yet they only
could comprehend the milk of the Word and not the meat. Milk is for babes, meat
is for those that are more mature.
Now do I want to be as one of those in Corinth, falling behind in no gift, or
do I want to be as one in Philadelphia(brotherly love), who have kept the WORD?
I will take the WORD. Here is what the WORD does;
Romans 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the
renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and
perfect, will of God.
First comes the renewing of the mind, by studying to show yourself approved.
Then one is enabled to prove(the proof of faith is the works of the believer)
what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God. How can you prove
what His will is when you don't understand it? The better the understanding,
the better the proving.
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DNATREE
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Does Scripture Decay, while the
Word of God endures forever?
Does Scripture’s meaning decay? Does Language
decay? While the word of God endures unchanged in our beings.
How does AWE (of God, life) become AWEFUL (I am saving the punchline for last,
the smallest of points that will change any equation towards love) It was love
that used the grain, from the temple, to feed the masses though the
interpretations of the day were that that was a sin. It was love that saved the
life of a woman when the interpretations of the day were to stone her. It was
love that answered the interpreters when they said that you must wash your
hands before eating and the answer was that it was not what goes into the body
that defiles but what comes out of it. (for out of the heart comes……) You see
it is what you put in your heart that matters, if it is interpretations then it
will be by those interpretations that you have judged the world that you will
be judged. So why is it so that the word of God not be recorded as in a book
but that it be in your heart?
· From scribe to scribe
· Without spirit of the ORIGINAL INTENT of God (life) they INTERPRET in vain
· As new generations of (separated) interpreters change the meaning of words so
that the words loose original intents and gain other meanings put there by
fearful dogmatic interpreters (pharasees) causing a decay in the original
intent of the meaning of words and most phrases in scripture.
· As cultures change meaning changes of words. (example: In the time of Jesus
the word "name" carried more layers of meaning than it does now. As
in the “name of Jesus” They hate the light because it reveals them separate
from the light, therefore they take away from the original meaning.)(decay)
· Having a form of religion but denying the power. (they clothed themselves in
the veils left at the bottom of the cross. (interpretations)
· Following flesh and blood (Only you "spirit of God" can make me
happy)
· All things come forth from God yet they decay because of (separation from
God) sin. Consider a flower, or manna. For the true manna is that bread that
comes down from heaven that you should eat and live. The true manna will not
decay.
· The supposed self evident truths of our fathers were written down less
because it was thought to be known by all so why record the obvious. Example:
There once was a common understanding of the twelve tribes idea that led to
Zodiac and the twelve Apostles but is not written plainly in scripture other
than the pattern of the twelve surrounding the tabernacle and this being called
“the pattern”.)
Rather than elaborate on each of these clues, I would like to give others a
chance to input their experience and understanding that came, not from a book,
but from God.
And so spirit of our fathers, I INTEND by knowing your ways that you bless
these words and use them to reveal your purpose and our original intent, our first
love.
Love believes all things but the letter of none. Remain empty (of
interpretation) until God fills. (Only you can make me happy, my life, my love,
my God. You Spirit of God are "the way", you are the life I live, you
are the truth. Let all men be called liars, let me be born new as one that
forgot the former interpretations that you might fill me.
Last edited by DNATREE on 07-17-2002 at 08:54 PM
DNATREE
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Spirit, Romance and Childs Play
I am about to go see my daughter (Raine) in Alabama
by bus from California. This is part of a scrapbook I have about our
experiences. She is 10 years old now. The song Rain by Madonna came out just
after I felt I would loose my daughter forever in 1993. For those that have
trouble with the spirit I come from this might be a door to better understand
where I am coming from.
The story of Raine
The Story of Rain(e)
RAIN
Madonna
I feel it, it's coming
Rain, feel it on my finger tips Hear it on my window pane
Your love's coming down like
Rain, wash away my sorrow Take away my pain
Your love's coming down like rain
When your lips are burning mine And you take the time to tell me how you feel
When you listen to my words And I know you've heard, I know it's real
Rain is what this thunder brings
For the first time I can hear my heart sing
Call me a fool but I know I'm not
I'm gonna stand out here on the mountain top
Till I feel your
Rain, feel it on my finger tips Hear it on my window pane
Your love's coming down like
Rain, wash away my sorrow Take away my pain
Your love's coming down like rain
When you looked into my eyes
And you said goodbye could you see my tears
When I turned the other way
Did you hear me say
I'd wait for all the dark clouds bursting in a perfect sky
You promised me when you said goodbye
That you'd return when the storm was done
And now I'll wait for the light, I'll wait for the sun
Till I feel your
Rain, feel it on my finger tips Hear it on my window pane
Your love's coming down like
Rain, wash away my sorrow Take away my pain
Your love's coming down like rain
Here comes the sun, here comes the sun
And I say, never go away
Waiting is the hardest thing
(It's strange I feel like I've known you before)
I tell myself that if I believe in you
(And I want to understand you)
In the dream of you
(More and more)
With all my heart and all my soul
(When I'm with you)
That by sheer force of will
(I feel like a magical child)
I will raise you from the ground
(Everything strange)
And without a sound you'll appear
(Everything wild)
And surrender to me, to love
Rain is what the thunder brings
For the first time I can hear my heart sing
Call me a fool but I know I'm not
I'm gonna stand out here on the mountain top
Till I feel your
Rain, I feel it, it's coming
Your love's coming down like
Rain, feel it on my finger tips Hear it on my window pane
Your love's coming down like
Rain, wash away my sorrow Take away my pain
Your love's coming down like rain
Let me dress your wounds ,Let me ease your pain, These arms are shelter
In the pourin' rain..
For ear has not heard, neither has it entered into the heart of man what is
prepared for you my love
Romance and Child’s Play
By Stephentree
A collection of short stories about Raine and her Father
Romance and Childs Play
During the period of my life that I was able to spend a lot of time with Raine,
(my daughter) I began to think about writing about our experiences together so
that Raine and I would have our own history and it also was related to my
writing about life. So one particular day we were having fun and fixing dinner.
It was just after the hurricane and Raine was helping me set the table in the
kitchen but there was very little light because the storm had damaged the house
and the lights were not on in the kitchen. Raine always liked to add something
new to the table like she did when she played with her tea set. She told me
that she wanted to take the candle from the small writing table (altar) and put
it on the table so that we could eat. It was then that I knew the story I
wanted to write about our experiences in wonder and magic together. For I then
realized that the same way that I added something new that came into my life
and into my writing table to dream about, Raine was doing to our dinner table
and in her play. So I saw that my romance with life was as childs play and that
Raines play was nothing other than romance with life.
Break my Teacher’s Heart
Raine and I wanted to have magic happen all the time but on this one occasion
Raine was intentional about it and I had woke up feeling that Raine and I would
have magic today. We were going to a Blackwater state park to go walking. On
the way Raine started to do magic. She said watch this daddy, “break my
teacher’s heart” and she broke a craker. She was very excited about this
because she too felt that she was making magic. Just a minute later Raine began
to get excited about controlling the moment and she also began to get very
loud. I had to say loudly “Raine” and because I did not want her that loud she
began to cry. I had been given a box of tapes with recorded music and selected
one from the box to play so that she might calm down. The tape was not at the
beginning but I put it in the player, the words that came from the Vanilla Ice
song on the tape were…”I knew it from the start you would break my heart, you
had me wound around your little bitty finger. Raine looked at me in
astonishment and I looked back at her excited because of the words that were
“in the moment”. Later Raine and I rewound this tape and put it in a recorder
and let her say the words “break my teacher’s heart” just before the song began
to play.
Dream a Party
I always loved to go new places and Raine at three years old she loved to be
invited to parties more than anything. So whenever we would go anywhere we
would run into a party or a fair in a small town and something strange would
always be at the party or fair as well. Like the time that Raine and I ventured
into Alabama and there was a fair downtown in a small town that we came across.
The first thing we noticed was a balloon the same colors as the outfit Raine
had on so we got it. Not only was it the same colors (green and yellow) but
also the swirls on the balloon even matched the yellow swirls in her dress. We
went weekly and sometimes daily to the local park and almost every time there
was a party there and even if we are on the other side of the park we would end
up getting invited to the parties.
Bad to the Bone in the Tree Daddy
Once Raine and I were driving with a friend (Barry Jones) in the car and we
were doing a audio recording. The subject was related to an emotion having to
do with the song “bad to the bone” as dna reaching to the bone, to the inner
most hidden place within. Raine wanted to be in on the conversation but she
knew she had to say something clever in order for me to let her say it on tape.
She waited and then blurted out “bad to the bone in the tree daddy”. Hmm I
thought, yes “in the tree” bad to the bone in the DNATREE,, Yes she had done
it. She had said something clever to put on tape.
DNATREE
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Emptyness and Spirit
I am astonished by this angel guiding me on my
journey through loneliness, she fills my emptiness, in bewilderness, it's a
loose interpretation (clue) of the original exodus. (Original Emptiness intent)
After
posting the following message on the internet Pam and I had many Synchs this
week about that emptiness and the work of spirit.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for rightiousness, and blessed are
those that know they are poor in spirit for they shall be filled, Don't be
ashamed of feeling empty, of not having the answers. Allow yourself to be empty
and let no man fill what is the spirits to fill. She waited for her beloved and
knew his heart when she met him.
Pam and I talked about the time I had gone through so much about emptyness in a
deserted canyon wilderness. I was crying because I had lost home and children
and was alone and my life had indicated that "she (my life) is even now at
the door". So I was in this basin crying "girl, girl, why have you
forsaken me" speaking of spirit from my perspective. I then found myself
in a layered cave with no ceiling. The spirit said that I was in the
"heart of girl" I was crying and digging because I needed so much and
did not know where it would come from. I found this ugly small stone
"beginning of a pearl" I did not know what was to happen in the days
to come but now I know it was to layer that pearl. (Cameo)
So this week she wanted to take me to a place called "Indian grinding
rock" near volcano california. We were talking about the grinding rock and
aspects of heart. (many holes in the rock used to grind acorns) Then we began
to talk about the "vacuum of emptyness that draws what the heart will
allow" Like remaining empty during a fast to draw spiritual food. We went
to the next park which was called "black Chasm" it was a large cave
under our feet we were told. (large emptyness) and then the synch with the gems
and the water because that was also what they did there. So spirit reminded me
of the experiences before about the gems coming from the emptiness.
"blessed are the poor (empty) in spirit". But this adventure matched
the experiences I had had before about emptiness and gems. We also played with
the spirit here.
(Black chasm, emptiness, the chasm between you and I on this planet. the
emptyness between us. Chasm spelt shasim,,, shazam!!! the emptyness is a magic
word or the magic word more closely is in the emtyness, in the chasm. (writer)
What's wrong with the obvious, get a clue vs an interpretation. Gems water
panning emptyness.) Ok, so you see how my life offers many aspects to WONDER
after.)
Pam and I walked to the store and on the way we found a braslet with 11 gems
(yellow green, found by the road) we then went to the store and she wanted
candles so we found these new ones the exact color of the gems and the candles
said "fortune" on them. So then we came home after renting the movie
DEEPLY that just came out on video. It was about a story how a love was lost
and how this story reached to the heart and of the emptyness between the two
lost lovers. The story spotlighted a boat that was the same green as the
braclet and the candles, the boat was called "fates fortune" having
to do with the "knowing" that the emptyness had brought. Then we
began to have images of Micheal Angelo's painting of man reaching to God and
the GAP between their fingers reaching. And then of the poem I wrote my
daughter about reaching for each other. Many other Synchs occurred about the
power of emptyness and of not filling it with an interpretation until spirit
gives you something real. So this is just the last few days in which all this
and much more happened about the spirit and emptyness. About creating emptyness
in the form of what we want and allowing it to come.
Can you feel what the faith of one that has had experiences with spirit would
be like compared to reading a book and trying to believe?
So you see that between you and I is this veil,,, and in my knowing I wish to
focus on creating an empty place where the veil once was so that like the Gap
between neurons something magical can happen. (where ever two, or three are
gathered in my name (spirit) , there I AM in the midst.
(The smallest of points will soon alter the largest of equations and render all
their INTERPRETATIONS meaningless. Thus fulfilling all scripture)
Do you love me? If you did you would recieve my spirit. But if you love your
interpretation more,, then it is by that interpretation that you will be made
desolate. The "right people" of this day no matter what religion love
their interpretation more than they love me, therefore the
"interpretors" (muslims,baptists)on the right will battle the
"interpretors" on the left (catholic, jews) and you will see how
nature eliminates the proud and the self rightious. But those that hold the
interpretations will have no room for the spirit that is to come from this
separation (sin) emptyness between you and I. How can they see the original
intent if they are too busy trying to prove each other wrong. It is the same as
with the pharasees, for the spirit of power and faith was reduced to self
right..ness and arguing, therefore did the original intent come and make their
temple desolate. The abomination of interpretation that caused desolation. And
they were scattered among the people. (but the remnant of spirit was a seed in
the earth)
Last edited by DNATREE on 07-06-2002 at 09:16 PM
DNATREE
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In the 365 years before what we call scripture came
around (after the Gospels) many things were decided by groups of infallable
men. I would not trust anything on earth unless spirit reveals it. Luckily that
is what Jesus said, but to do so as always has been will mean that you will
have to go against what is worshipped as God by the world. And you will be
persecuted by those that worship the sanctioned interpretations in the book.
For what they worship is an interpretation of scripture, but the true word of
God as spoken in scripture is not words on a page, it is spirit, and that
spirit as is written (deut) is in your mouth and in your heart. It is
impossible to believe this without going though each step that each of you are
going through. But faith is beyond the interpretations and if you die (veil
yourself to spirit by shame or blame) in the wilderness then you might see why
the fearful and unbelieving did not find it and understand the mystery as to
why so many millions that go by "christian" are separate from each
other. Because what is of spirit has little to do with what they (the world)
demands you worship as God. You see, Jesus even said this plainly but it is
hard to believe that so many can be veiled until you understand why we would
choose a veil of interpretation to hide behind in the first place. Spirit
overcomes all interpretations and what is RIGHT in the moment is what spirit
leads you to not what you do because of an interpretation of what is right to
do. For every moment is different and the spirit knows what is right for each
moment. So let go of the veil of interpretation and find spirit. Set aside
everything else if you have to and go alone in the wilderness and find the
smallest of points that changes all equations. I led you through the great and
terrible wilderness of peoples and ideas. With thirsty ground where there was
no water (understanding from spirit) I fed you water from the rock. (it looks
like a trickle at first) In order to humble you (focus you on the source, which
is not man or book but spirit) To do you good in the end. That you might know
from where your life comes. But that trikle will turn into a fountain (in your
relationship and learning from spirit) and that fountain rising up to eternal
life. (not as the world teaches but as spirit teaches) Deut 8:15
Last edited by DNATREE on 06-29-2002 at 08:33 PM
DNATREE
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You might have heard me say " even when she
falls he makes her right" speaking of spirit as masciline. And you have
heard me say "she is my life, she is my wife, she came out from me in the
beginning" again speaking of spirit. So like heart which is neither male
nor female but the layers of human so is spirit not what we think. And the
weightier attributes of spirit unseen by the trite. What is obsurd is how many
debate the nature of what they have not experienced but only read about. For
though it has been with them like a shadow they search everywhere else
unbelieving.
DNATREE
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Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for
rightiousness, and blessed are those that know they are poor in spirit for they
shall be filled, Don't be ashamed of feeling empty, of not having the answers.
Allow yourself to be empty and let no man fill what is the spirits to fill. She
waited for her beloved and knew his heart when she met him.
DNATREE
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Synchronicity
I used to teach in a Presbytarian Church, at first
they said I was anointed when the Synchronicities started, then they feared me
when the synchs went beyond their veil of interpretation. Finally I had to
leave and live in the woods due to the fears of the Christians in Huntsville
Al. Here are some links on synchs http://www.tarot.com/news/?file=news2#jung
From that article:
JUNGIAN ARCHETYPES
The word "archetype" is defined by Webster as "original pattern
or model." Jung took this Platonic concept, refined it and applied it to
depth psychology -- specifically to his theories about the "collective
unconscious."
Jungian archetypes presuppose that all people -- even across cultures -- share
a common landscape of attributes, have a similar relationship to all the primal
qualities of human energy and expression. Individuals may manifest these
qualities in different proportions, but the energy or attitude of every
archetype is contained within every human being to some degree, however
imperceptible it may seem. Obviously, some individuals will be more predisposed
towards certain qualities than others.
http://www.tarot.com/news/?file=news3
From that article:
"This ... involves a certain curious principle that I have termed
'synchronicity,' a concept that formulates a point of view diametrically
opposed to that of causality. Since the latter is merely statistical truth and
not absolute, it is a sort of working hypothesis of how events evolve one out
of another, whereas synchronicity takes the coincidence of events in space and
time as meaning something more than mere chance, namely, a peculiar
interdependence of objective events among themselves as well as with the
subjective (psychic) states of the observer or observers."
According to Jung, synchronistic thinking is "field thinking," the
center of which is timeä specifically, a moment in time. From a synchronistic
point of view, the important question is not why has something occurred, or
what factor caused this effect, but rather which things like to happen together
at the same moment. What types of events, including psychological events, have
a tendency to happen together in time?
We have a notion that events tend to cluster around a moment in time, as
evidenced by folks sayings like "Good things (or accidents) happen in
threes." In our own culture today, this exists as a superstitious kind of
popular awareness.
Nevertheless, a tendency has long been evident for several scientists or
inventors to make the same discovery, completely independently, at the same
time. And, in these days of global media, it is easy to observe that ideas and
inventions tend to crop up in different places at the same time. On a more
personal level, one has been known to wonder why the obscure, but needed,
library book is always the one already checked out?
Although belief in synchronicity might seem to fly in the face of scientific
method, which adheres to an ability to objectively pinpoint, measure and
predict cause and effect, the principle was indirectly validated by the
physicist Werner Heisenberg's discovery in 1937. In the proof of his
Uncertainty Principle, which still stands, Heisenberg demonstrated that, in the
realm of sub-atomic particles, the act of perception influences what is being
perceived, such that any accurate measurement becomes impossible. This can
loosely be interpreted to imply the essence of the Synchronicity Principle,
which is that everything that happens in a given situation at a given time participates
with, and affects, everything else.
For the fruit of what I learned having to do with christianity and
synchronicity see www.stephentree.com/stbasics.htm
DNATREE
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Ken,
I am sorry that I have not returned your last
message and I realised why I was having problems getting in the SPIRIT to speak
to you because there is something you have to know about me and that is that if
it doesn't feel good that spirit won't help (meet me or bother with the intent)
me there in such requests. And it is not you either,, it is me. For that is how
I am shown to see it that I don't know how to make it feel right and must ask
spirit to get me in the spirit in a joyful way. The reason that my own self is
resisting is because spirit says that I have FEEL that I had spoken to a
similar spirit before and though I offered in joy the intent was not joyful
that returned and so it felt as though it were a nip on the heal. But that I
believe both of our intents are involved and that yours as well will manefest
between us.(So I wish to feel only that love might form, and so it is that I am
looking for a door. (mutually benefiting empathetic relationship of sorts) So
you see it is not that it is true that I should even feel this way and I am
asking spirit to help me see you different that I might serve you best.
DNATREE
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The point is,,,, is it more important that spirit
be a he or a she or the fact that spirit will reprove the world of sin and of
rightiousness?
DNATREE
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You might have heard me say " even when she
falls he makes her right" speaking of spirit as masciline. And you have
heard me say "she is my life, she is my wife, she came out from me in the
beginning" again speaking of spirit. So like heart which is neither male
nor female but the layers of human so is spirit not what we think. And the weightier
attributes of spirit unseen by the trite. What is obsurd is how many debate the
nature of what they have not experienced but only read about. For though it has
been with them like a shadow they search everywhere else unbelieving.
DNATREE
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Superiority of Spirit over
interpretation and even over Jesus
Spirit indicates that interpretations are as a
Thorny bush (judges 9) and that spirit is as the tree that grows in
relationship to spirit and when the fire came the Thorny bush was destroyed and
the tree remained. Any interpretation given by man will perish along with man
but that which is grown in spirit and of spirit is as " Unless the lord
(spirit) builds the house or layers the tree, we labor in vain" For even
though the words that Jesus said enabled him to walk on water these words have
no power apart from spirit imparting them to you" But man builds a house
by looking around at the interpretations that man has and selecting which he believes
to be true and placing them together he builds. But even if these words were
the words of Jesus, or or Stephentree if spirit did not give them to you they
will not have the ingredient "(spirit) necessary to impart power or save
you from death. And the interpretations which is as a crown of thorns to those
born of the spirit, causes only anguish and soon one born of spirit dies to
even those interpretations as he does the law for those interpretations have
become a law which says you must believe this or that. Now spirit testifies
that even the name Jesus is part of an interpretation that purifies those in
spirit and traps the fearful and unbelieving behind a veil of interpretation.
Spirit testifies in all ways that it is better to burn the bible and have no interpretation
rather than to fall into interpretation without overcoming. For that
interpretation will then block the door and crystalise you into a place that is
fruitless such as religion and the separation of interpretation. So then we die
even to the name of Jesus, forgetting all that we believe to be true for the
sake of spirit that we might be led. For abraham was alive in the intent as he
was a man without a home from UR wandering so is the people, and he did fall
into bondage to interpretation and spirit was to free him over and over. But
Jesus showing that the true life was that of human/god that goes beyond even
our father abraham to the father of our fathers. Thus in poetry showing what
was to come. That this inheritance was not just for the sons of abraham but
unto all men, both Jew and Gentile, both the chosen and the unchosen. But those
that choose themselves are evident by their love of interpretation, those that
are closer to the path of their fathers are known by spirit and by being hated
by those that put on the CLOTHES of self rightiousness... otherwise known as
those that are of interpretation. So from the perspective of spirit one can see
that all are on the path, but those that have not died to interpretation have
persecuted those born of the spirit from the foundation of "CIVILISED
WORLD". And that the time has come to remove that thorn bush that is
blocking the door to spirit. There fore each of us ask for the fire that burns
up all interpretation and the things of spirit only remain, and in doing so
those that appear first as to interpretation will be last and those that appear
last according to interpretation will be first in spirit. For to fill an
emptyness with interpretation is like planting a tree whose fruit is desolation
(destruction) but to remain empty only that the spirit might sow a tree that
grows and at the edge of death overtakes interpretation as a lion overtakes the
prey. So it is finished, in that at the edge of anialation, we will all be
changed. And so my testimony is FINISHED, which they did not believe and which
I am to take now to the stranger, spirit at the edge of death will overtake all
interpretation and what transpires will change all men and all interpretations
will be rendered meaningless. Spirit, like the smallest of points that the
builders have overlooked will change all equations rendering all
interpretations,,,,,,, meaningless.
Last edited by DNATREE on 06-20-2002 at 11:13 PM
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zadok
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well, i'm still not sure if i'm understanding you
right. it seems like we are understanding the same way but using different words
to relate our perceptions. maybe not.
but if not, what i am wondering, if interpretation is bad, then what are all of
those angels doing flying around interpreting visions and dreams, and why is
jesus interpreting parables for his disciples?
maybe you should define "interpretation" more clearly?
i just really cannot pin down what you are really trying to say
DNATREE
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Very good Zadok,
For even though spirit might give me the answer to your question splitting
hairs to the marrow, if you were to be in the spirit and you hear it from my
lips and spirit says that these are not the words of Steven but of spirit, then
you would find that they fit for you, But if you do not know the spirit and you
are judging these words wether this interpretation is greater than the one you
already have filling that spot, then these words are powerless, for the leaven
of eternal life is spirit not the words. And it is not my arragance about my
interpretation that makes this a right....iousness that is of spirit but that
spirit testifies to you that these words are spirit.
Let my anger tear this veil of interpretation which lies between you and I on
this planet. For to put the blame on you is to be angry at ones self. I have my
wrath firmly focused on what is separating you and I and us and them.
Complete writings of Stephentree (sorry, too many have been asking the same
question over and over and it is answered over and over in many different ways
but the unbelieving are to be veiled by the God (interpretation) of this world.
So I post this file as a testimony to that)
www.stephentree.com/stbasics.htm
Last edited by DNATREE on 06-21-2002 at 12:44 AM
DNATREE
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It is true that prisons will be no more, for in the
temple only he that dreams to kill and the fearful need worry. And it is a
natural illimination of both the fearful and the angry hater. But those outside
this marriage of spirit need not fear the robber or the murderer. For that was
the natural way of things before interpretation. So go in your temple and only
see the one you love on the other side of the veil. If you have not given up
family and father for the truths sake you will not be worthy of the salvation
you believe you have. It would be better that you just walk away, for if you
truely knew spirit you would be hated by all, yet have no malice toward none
for a period of sanctification that you might have your eyes opened to what is
spirit and what is interpretation. It is the fears of the interpretors that
created the bandaid called prison. This too will be revealed. I must soon leave
the fight between you and I on this planet and go off with spirit into a secret
place for a time. For I must go where my love takes me. In that place I will
continue to dwell in spirit in the moment and "have a blast". For
that is the intent of life. As man fights each other over who has the right
interpretation the broken and contrite heart will reveal the truth.
Last edited by DNATREE on 06-16-2002 at 09:23 PM
DNATREE
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Broken and Contrite heart toward
each other
This so that many might understand a way of spirit
within my life as standing naked before you, unveiled in interpretation.
The spirit indicates that I was allowed after speaking of what spirit had in
plan for me with relation to Ken to experience the following.
In that spirit said that at first I should see this as Ken so I was tricked by
spirit in the moment to see the name Ken at the end of a post after reading the
post about Elucidating spirit. As this is a way of spirit to trick me by my own
intentions in order to TEMPER me and have me understand and tell what many have
wondered. In that the different spirit in the writing asking to (elucidate) had
more of the "intent of the heart" to understand me and that each of
us should have a broken and contrite heart in our approach to wanting to
understand each other and in wanting to understand God.
And so those that know spirit might know that this is the heart that is
required to ask of this spirit.
As there is only you and I and this veil of interpretation that separates us.
Now from my perspective this covenant had been made that "Even when she
falls he makes her right" as that you might know what part is spirit and
what part is words.
I have been off on a three day trip along the ocean, and had many wonderful
things that I shared with my life in the synchronicity of my moments.
In spirit I saw Jesus the Christ as praying with great drops of sweat as blood.
And the spirit indicated that the original intent of "without the shedding
of blood there can be no remission of sins" was more of a broken and
contrite heart such as when Jesus was "very intentful" in his prayer.
Knowing that unless spirit give him what he wants in spirit first. He would not
have it in real life.
Because of a relationship with spirit rather than one with an interpretation
about spirit, spirit wants to make right he who walks in spirit
In spirit and with an unveiled heart to God and in my imagination I find that I
can jump from one car to another when they are speading and in my imagination
feeling the experience I can sense all of the hesitations and fears I might
have and so I can Jump and jump and jump and jump until all the intent is clean
and I am not fearful but excited should I be in that moment and many times then
I find myself in that same situation as though I walke upon it on a path and in
real life then I know that I am in a "cradle of process" as a baby
and I know that YOU are with me. For I dreamed it and YOU showed up in that
form. And what fear now should I have of it for now you have said that it is
you not the horse that carried me when I dreamed it. For if you have not jumped
from car to car speading in spirit you cannot do it in the moment that it is
ripe in your life. First layer your experiences with spirit in imagination that
you might know that he is with you when the dream comes as a lover. Not that
you collect the imaginings but that you collect the synchronicities that will
testify to what I have said here and then on them you might layer your dreams
and see each fulfilled as God coming in each form that you dreamed to show you
the fruit of your dreams that you might focus and train your dreams and make
them clean. But don't worry for the veiled will not see the power in these
words anyway for the God of this world has blinded their eyes by filling their
cups so that they cannot recieve more.
Offer up a fresh cup, one without a stain of what formerly filled it
(interpretation) A cup (heart) completely empty and if the spirit brings to
your rememberance from a dead interpretation a vowel then that vowel can be as
the word of God that you might live by.
As a child born comepletely forgetting the former things of a life once lived.
For you see the spirit in the book belongs to God but the letter of the book
was seized by his foe.
It is not your promise from God unless it comes through your heart and is KEPT
within your heart. For many will know that a thing that comes to them from the
outside actually came to them through their hearts. For the heart is as a Rose
and the fragrance can draw anything you want!
If at the end of any thought or intent you did not have another thought which
was to judge the first then you would find out in the fruit of that thought who
it is that judges. For spirit is in the dawn of your thoughts while they are
still feelings in the first milliseconds before they are changed to thoughts and
then words and then in your interpretations you put in each layers of thoughts
as judgements of the first and thusly you hesitated in what was given you from
spirit. But if you were to go into a private place and stay in spirit without
words,,,,, feel the thoughts and what the moments of your path are saying to
you. If all you hear are your fears than ask continually that your heart open
as a rose, And love what your life is to you as "Even though she slay me
yet will I love her" And take from those moments whatever miniskul
fragments you are given to eat from spirit in that bewilderness and then keep
that in your heart and likewise each day you dwell always in the spirit
gleaning what it might have for you in your passionate intent as before an
altar with one you love there intent upon listening with the dim candlelight of
spirit leading your hearts to the appropriate questions. And after much time
all things are made new and seen fresh and believing all things wonderful and
asking the father/ lover/ God/ beloved of how we might see these past
interpretations that we are creating by and then in a way removed from all
interpretations I was taken to places and events that did make new each promise
and each fragment. And so like a tree growing up or a fountain filling up so
that the spirit might bring to my remembrance in the moment that I need that
which was given me in a moment as what I have come to know as synchronicity.
Ok,, the reason it is run together is that I was translating the feelings
expressed by the synchronicities of late that had lead to the forming of
understanding that lead to these words. And in the spirit of Joy I do end this
with a spirit that was given to me in times past in order to stay lighthearted
as joy is the grease of all miracles... Duh! In that 22 years ago in former
lives I had learned from synchronicities that nothing really matters for the
only bad that comes is what we make bad in our hearts for the natural flow of
the river is love. And so I am laid bare in my attempt to reach each of you
here.
Now watch how the smallest of points within language changes the spirit greatly
and the intent at the end of a prayer. " We pray in the SPIRIT of the one
called "Jesus the Christ"
And so lastly let us bless not so much what goes into my mouth as what I have
offered from it.
And so that you might furthur distinguish the spirit that chose to fill the cup
from "the cup" the cup would like to add "I think this is all
very cool ***" (deleted expletive, admin) For he is considered by himself
to be the least of the bretheren a beggar of sorts. With a british Mum and a
Cherakee dad. Well enough about me, Get on with praising the Lord.
Last edited by DNATREE on 06-15-2002 at 09:04 AM
DNATREE
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The promised return is SPIRIT,
interpretation is the golden calf
She could not wait
For the promise of his return
She took a husband
A Woman had a dream of the man that would be coming
But thinking she decided to take a husband that was presented by others to be
that one. And then when the real one of her dreams came she could not recognize
him.
For as Moses did tarry on the mountain so is it in this time that they began to
build. But if spirit does not build they labored in vain.
For the wait was part of the work of spirit, that you remain empty, not
choosing a husband until the promised return of the one. For the return is like
an emptiness in her heart that she refuses to fill with the images that they
created until the promise of the return of the bridegroom. She waits in the
house before the veil alone in her closet. She was hated by those that had gone
on and taken to themselves a God. But they desired a king, they desired a
husband and so they took the veil and the vow but alas it was not he. It was
only an image that could not do anything for them. And as those that Moses
returned and the multitude had made for themselves a religion, it was utterly
destroyed, but those that recognized spirit said I will go on and take what has
been promised but most did not go in because they did not recognize him when he
returned. (fearful and unbelieving)
Like fasting until spirit fills, so it is with one that is born of the spirit.
No interpretation will do until it is given me from your lips my love. Not
wanting to be filled until the true bridegroom knocks at the door. So it is
that the stranger will recognize him but the intended bride will not saying
“you tarried and I did not think you would return therefore I took a husband.”
How have you reconciled that it is spirit that must build? Do you think that
religion is right though it’s fruit is nothing but separation? Because of being
filled with interpretation will you deny others and say they are evil? Will you
judge as religion demands you judge each other? The spirit of Jesus is the
spirit of salvation, but it is they who hid behind this interpretation veil
that will need to be saved. (free in the garden until you eat from the tree of
the knowledge of good and evil, then you are veiled and die spiritually, needing
to be born again spiritually) It will become very real, and if you demand that
interpretation be true than you must fulfill in your interpretation every jot
and tittle as it was with the law and by interpretation I have shown you that
that is impossible. For the smallest of points will come along and blow your
entire equation, but if you die to the new law that says you must believe this
or that and wait for the promised return in your heart you will find it. It was
the filling of the holy place with interpretation that was like a full cup that
could not be filled by spirit. You must die to interpretation and wait for
spirit, and in doing so you will be hated by many, and you will be brought
before them and weighed by their interpretations. They will judge you harshly
but you will then have your eyes opened. As one with no group you will be
alone, but in that loneliness you will find spirit. Many found hard what Jesus
said and went away so it will be when they find they have made an idol.
Last edited by DNATREE on 06-09-2002 at 10:45 PM
Pilgrim
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Hello Friend,
I would like to ask you what the sorce of your information is?
In Messiah's love
Glori
DNATREE
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Don't let what I say bother you, but don't ask me
the source as I have already told you, find it. Like a tree I gradually took on
this form, like an empty canvas the painter waited for spirit to move dabbing
where spirit moved, until the painting took form. And seeing the form that it
was makes the fruit come out on that tree. The almond staff that budded, where
does such authority for ones own life come from. Does it come from the beliefs
of man, does it come from a book, No we both know that our life is from God.
DNATREE
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Salvation is not anything in the future,,, it is
being saved in this moment. As every time she falls she falls on gold, and even
when she falls he makes her right. If you do not experience salvation in this
moment, how can you exspect to be saved in a future moment. Saying I believe
Jesus will not save you now or then. But taking hold of spirit as Jesus did and
dieing to what you think is right will.
DNATREE
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More meaning in a tree than the
color of fruit
When Jesus said that a tree that does not produce
good fruit should be cut down he was speaking of the abomination that Judism
had become. therefore the tree of the knowledge of good and evil could be
likened unto a group that believes in separations between things like this pile
is all good and this pile is all bad. Kind of like christianity and the
abomination of interpretation that has lead to such separation between men over
doctrine yet none will be right, no not one. But the tree of Religion, (Judism,
Christianity, Islam) only creates separation, just like the earthly city
(jerusalem) has no peace thou it's name is peace. That is why spirit was to
interpret, but the right people love their interpretation more than they love
you and I or God. Thus you know they are not the children of abraham, but the
same spirit as the pharasees. Christians like pharasees cling to what they
believe they have interpreted right, and if you show them the obvious poetry
that spirit speaks they cannot go there, yet Jesus rebuked the Pharasees
because they could not see past the letter of their interpretations, which were
handed them by men that did not know God but did use the interpretation to
control others and by controlling others they felt less fear of the unknown.
But it is spirit that is to show you why you should not fear, not words in a
book. Book words mean nothing unless God reveals them to you. In fact the
intent and passionate faith of a muslim killing christians would be closer to
the faith that is from God than the fearful that cling to words in a book and
say they are the words of God without ever knowing God. But then they say,,,
who has known God, are not we all blind? So unless God has revealed it unto
you,,, you are sinning telling others these are God's words without it being
revealed to you by God. The right people that worship the bible without knowing
truely the heart of God, or of the fathers before them for that matter, are an
abomination of the original intent. Should you actually engage spirit you would
be a new creature unlike your neibor or fellow God seeker and the things that
you will be shown will be unlike any have seen. If you do not believe that you
do not know the least of the heart of Jesus, you are an imposter, a book reader
and someone that feels they must control others because the interpretation that
they found in a church or handed them by their fathers says it should be.
Remember the bible is an invention like the letters and the words and even like
TV. It is an instrument that men created along with alphabet to store parts of
an equation but without the spirit of the original intent you might as well say
"everyone must obey the tv, for out of it comes the words of God"
This would sound stupid, but when words writing was first invented, such a
thing as a HOLY BIBLE would have been stupid. Not that Jesus was not full of
spirit, but the pieces that were left in a book have been interpreted in such a
way as you would die to see truely what their origin was. So go ahead worship
an interpretation and demand everyone worship it also for your name is in the
book but not as the one you believe you are
Last edited by DNATREE on 05-30-2002 at 02:54 AM
DNATREE
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Like Catholic and Protestant, the pharasees and Sadducees
were the abomination of interpretation of Judaism because though they knew the
words of their book, without spirit they could not OVERCOME the mainstream
teachings that required man to see the writings from the obvious point of view.
Like interpreting: For to have an interpretation is unto spirit like a full cup
so the truth that is from spirit cannot fill the cup further. First like a
virgin (untouched) by the beliefs of the day you submit only to that which
spirit reveals to you. And yes you make sure it fulfills scripture until you
know whom it is you have believed. You see that is why the faith of Moses did
not match the implementation of the faith of abraham, but it was indeed faith
in God. But what people call faith nowadays is merely the appearance that they
believe the God created by the interpretation. It was not the scripture that
was the abomination for the scripture is merely writings. But it is what is
coming from the mouth of the masses that call themselves "christian"
that will defile them.. that is the abomination. You see many think that I am
against them as christians, I am showing them what they are creating by
believing the interpretation over spirit. And how the very ones that they think
do not follow God and they condemn as the pharasees condemned those that did
not follow their INTERPRETATION, are as the least of the brethern which christ
said you have done it unto me. Soon information will be revealed that will show
that it is not the scripture but the abomination of it that is being worshipped
as God. Many will leave christianity then but the veiled that are blinded by
their own interpretation will remain until last. What is to be learned will
fulfill the saying "the last will be first and the first shall be made
last" But, fear not for the truth is not as christians have wanted others
to fear, but it will be a great fire that will reveal the true INTENT of their
hearts and many will leave the interpretation behind to live in the moment with
spirit without regard for the interpretation or the law or writings for spirit
will fulfill all that for them. If you will look at my INTENT without thinking
in terms of "WHO IS RIGHT" for to be right is not the purpose of
life, it is a stumbling block.
Again I am not trying to show you I am right and you are wrong for it is not
that way. But it is the belief that you are right according to interpretation
that will be " the way that seems right but leads to destruction" I
am here that the spirit willing you might see past the veil of interpretation."
The purpose of scripture is not to build an interpretation such as has been
done but to show as the LAW showed, to convict, that you might find spirit and
be saved from the abomination of interpretation that will lead to desolation.
Should you go beyond the veil and find spirit it will lead you to see Muslim
and Jew and other beliefs as trees of fruit and yourself back in the garden
unveiled from your God yet able to eat from all things (trees) without shame
and spirit would show you the good in all, for love believes all things but
spirit is the door to see them from their Original Intent which is how they
were created by God for you. To the pure all things are pure, to the veiled all
things are shameful, blameful. The way to be separate is to be in spirit,
therefore you are separate from the ways of interpretation of the flesh, and
being separate from THAT you find yourself one with sprit and your neihbor, you
see the love in all things, yet condemn none. There are thousand that are about
to burst forth on this planet with the same spirit I have yet the words will be
different but the meaning will be the same. For spirit does not use words only
to teach. For words are not capable of writing this on your heart, no you must
take up your cross and get nailed, like lambs to the slaughter I am not saying
anything that you do not already know. Once you find spirit by starting over
and letting go of the veil of interpretation and let spirit speak in your
moments, it will lead you to be hated by those in your assembly, they will not
understand you for a very long time as spirit will first lead you in a way that
will require you to allow yourself to be thought a fool in your groups. Then
you will leave and be very alone, and rejected, and your heart will be torn
over and over daily, but the life that will come out of your very being, and
the moment that you will share with the only lover there really is. God. That
will reveal what life really is.
Last edited by DNATREE on 05-30-2002 at 10:09 PM
chris
shall
never thrist...
Registered: May 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 328
Peace DNA.
I think you cannot see the forest for the trees. The majority of people in this
world are like dogs. They live their entire lives just following the direction
of the pack. Even most leaders are like dogs, they just perchanced upon a
public 'megaphone.'
True leaders many times are never ackowledged by the public. They honestly seek
the truth, regardless of what is commonly believed.
I think your hang-up about 'interpretation' is your fustration with the 'dogs'
of Christianity. Dogs will be dogs. Not that being a dog-christian is bad, just
a handicap. But there is a right interpretation of the Scriptures, and
almost all denominations have small bits of the right interpretation. No one
has the full interpretation, most just think they do. I pray continually that
G-d gives me a little more understanding of the Scriptures everyday.
DNATREE
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Peace to you also Chris
I think you cannot see the tree because of the forest... lol
My hangup with interpretation is that it is what separates men from God and
each other. Now I will tell you that I think that many within christianity are
close to spirit but cannot reconcile what is called the word of God by the
interpretors for they find themselves recieving messages from spirit but it is
taken from them when they get back to the SANCTIONED belief. I know that I had
a very hard time letting go of what everyone warned me with their fear was the
word of God. But you will find that what they say is the word of God is the
word of man's interpretation, and that the word of God should you actually find
it will first destroy everything you ever believed and make all things new, not
just once but new every moment. Yes there is a right interpretation of
scripture that both you and I agree cannot be abtained by reading it but it is
the spirit that will lead you into all truth. The truth says that by
interpreting as the Pharasees did you cannot recognise God, spirit, messiah,
yourself. So in other words if you know that to be a fact what is the possible
chance that what everyone says you must agree upon in order to go to heaven is
actually the correct interpretation. I found even if I read the correct
interpretation someone wrote that would be meaningless as well. Like being
baptised with water, it is the baptism of spirit that is of greater importance.
Water in the bible is poetic for understanding as "it escapes their notice
that the world was made by water through water" But spirit is the fire
that reveals not water.
DNATREE
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Ken, Chris, and others posting here. I don't want
you to drop your belief and believe that water is poetry for understanding that
comes down from God.
but why would we want to change water to wine
and why would water be changed to blood
and why out of his side came blood and water
and why does the Jordan River mean "Water that descends"
and why does Galallee mean "circle" as if the Jordan is the water
that flows through the circle.
And why did the waters have to be divided anyway (Moses)
And why if water were only water would we want to be baptised in it.
It is not wether you or I are correct but wether you have wondered after him..
for it was written that they wondered after him who was called the True water
that cometh down from heaven.
And why would he tell the Samaritan woman that he was the true water that comes
down from heaven that when you drink of this water you will not thirst again.
If you have not figured out my intent it is to get you to look beyond the
accepted veil of truth and wonder after him.
My intent is that you do not follow me or any flesh but that you do follow
spirit, cults like christianity demand you follow what the ESTABLISHED belief
of the Sanctioned interpretation. I am here that you may see that
interpretation is nothing without spirit, and with spirit all things become
true. Like the smallest of points all interpretors will overlook, spirit
reveals the things that make all things fit together as it will bring together
even YOU AND I, those two who formally were far apart. You and I meaning both
Ken and DNATREE, man and woman, christian and muslim. If you follow the
interpretaton you have been handed you and I, will continue to pierce each other
on this planet as once they have pierced us, and we have pierced them out of
our rightious anger they will for get that they started it and only remember
how we killed their brothers, and then they without them will have much less to
live for and will do greater things to us, and we in our rightious anger again
will cause the desolation of all things. The way to stop it is to let go of all
such things and take hole of the only point able to change all equations. (the
spirit of love) When I lost a million dollar business and family and home in
one day. My life showed me how to find and focus on only what I love. And to
let that be all that I see. There is only you and I my love,,,, my life and all
that I love is as the lover. The only one that is worthy of my attention.
I am a house of wonder
I am a house of dreams
I wondered if I could make a living wondering
and my life became wonder------full
Stephentree
Last edited by DNATREE on 06-01-2002 at 11:32 PM
DNATREE
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It means making a religion and how I did not come
to bring peace but the sword. And how they fought and killed each other. Like
the virgins that did not attach themselves to the religion (appointed husband)
of the day that was separating men. But waited for the return of the truth from
above. The right people interpreted that they must be right (guess who will be
wrong, the right people) They must have a form,, book,,, writing,, to worship.
If Christians knew where their Golden Calf came from they would run from it.
That was why something else was hidden in scripture (within the engraven image)
Was it not this same gold that was used to form the house. (tabernakle) Being
full and veiled by their book,, interpretation,, god. If something real was
happening on the planet right now they would be blind to it. In fact no matter
what comes they will believe it cannot be of God because of the fearful
interpretation that misleads them. Yes they are the sheep and they are headed
for the slaughter. But he that is born of the spirit like John the Baptist
would not seem to fit a mold. Like Moses was not the same as Abraham or elijah.
Christians think that to be like christ you are to act a certain way not
knowing what is meant by (not according to the law but of faith,,, and then
what is faith except that that comes by hearing the true word of God in your
life and thereby believing THAT WORD and the fruit that it creates in your life
which will not be like any of the prototypes of anyone that went before you but
will be of faith.
Last edited by DNATREE on 05-14-2002 at 11:19 PM
DNATREE
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The gospel of love that is in our hearts recognises
no hell except what you are allowed to create in illusion. But in truth all
things are pure, without true love of life and the spirit of life all things
appear evil
My life took me to the "original intent " of anything is to see
how it was created by God. To look at it through another door is to not see the
original intent. That is why it is impossible without spirt.
Over and over in writings,,,, including scripture, it was shown that the religious would
take out of the scripture the experience such as sacrifice which was originally
related to cooking instructions. They would make it a toil and a pain for the
people therefore the spirit said "I do not want your sacrifices" for
they had lost the spirit of why they did it and kept only their interpretation.
These are they that broke in to steal, for they did not go in the door of
original intent. For it takes spirit to go in that door. Was not killing the
fatted cow first a celebration of life? Was it not the joy that was first. Was
it not the singing before a battle that was the point and not the battle. For
to win, is to first win in spirit. But the religious see only the battle and
that that is what God wanted. (Most christian interpretations are the same
spirit as the muslims that saw only the chance to be right, to be separate from
all that is in their rightness, it is a mirror of the beast that christianity
has become, demanding the whole world to believe what they read which always
was condemned by the spirit as the way that seems right but leads to death.
Therefore it was written that they were not the children of abraham for they
had not the same spirit but just jumped on the bandwagon of "we are
right" WAR) This is the spirit of darkness, for to have the spirit is to
see the original intent. But the joy and the battle were in the example for
you, but the religious only see the battle. If you had Joy you would be looking
for a new beginning. "Behold I will make all things new" but if you
are of the interpretation handed by the fathers that killed so many in the name
of God then you are looking for an end, for a tribulation, for a "get
even" and you do not know the spirit that christ and budda and Rumi and
Moses and elijah, and john the baptist,, because you are so right you are
creating a hell,,,, an end, For the spirit is the spirit of the dawn and of the
springtime,, and of newness,, fresh as fruit that is even now ripe on the
vine..
The battle that is coming will not be between right and wrong... it will be two
equally wrongs,,, fighting to be right... guess who wins.. neither will win..
but he that is not of this marriage.. for it is a marriage. For there is only
you and I... like the two rooms they have seated themselves in a room where the
other side of the veil is their creation,,, opposite,, waiting to give them the
hell they dream of.
But you can "be saved" from the erradication that is to come.. you
can leave all those interpretation and go into your closet and find spirit...
the spirit that I want to live, and love, and wonder after you my life...
I heard a preacher the other day talking about how glad he will be to get off
this rock..he called it a pile of dung,, he wanted to be saved from this hell..
I tell you David from Waco dreamed of a fiery end for you and I.. but who
inherited his dream. If you do not love life you will be given the door out
soon, but if you love life and the spirit that is life.. then you will die to
that old way of believing and walk in the newness of the spirit. Either
way,,you must die. It is much easier to stay where everyone says "we are
right" Dogma Separates/ but love integrates... Soon we will find out if
our desire to love and understand others.. muslim...hindu.. beggers... is
greater than our desire to be right. Christians have followed the new law that
is separate from the spirit,,, the new law says "YOU MUST BELIEVE THIS"
Last edited by DNATREE on 05-15-2002 at 09:53 PM
DNATREE
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The original intent of the
fathers
Having a form of religion but denying the spirit..
lets say a father finds the romance in spirit and creates a form to remember
this love afair, based on his experiences with life. Then the son comes along
and he sees what his father had with life,,, but he does not understand the
original spirit,, but in his fathers life it is played out as romance with his wife
and that that is very good. So the son takes that as the meaning of the form
that the father kept to remember this romance with life.. Then this son has a
son and he sees that since his father did not have the spirit, but only the
form that his relationship is not as great with his wife as the father of his
father. But the son who is the father of this son could not show all the layers
and the heighth depth and width of the understanding of the original father,
and all this third son has is the interpretation of the form that the second
father had. Thus the form not being made fresh (new) by the spirit looses more
of the original intent. And then a man from another land comes and sees the
form and hears the tale from the grandson of his fathers father and how he
walked in romance with God but much is lost again. This man from another land
is non the less impressed and feels that this was a wonderous thing and carries
an image of this form to the new land and so forth and so on until the original
intent is lost in the idol,, book story, form, that the original father had
known. This was very well understood by the one named Jesus because of the
understanding of the romance with God he had, he only feeling the intent of the
original father that had romance with God and understood the relationship of
the two houses that were joined. Having decended into the fears of man and the
lost conditions that led the original father to express the romance with God
that the emptiness in his heart drew as a roses fragrance draws the pollen.
Leading the fathers to their inheritance. And then having ascended with spirit
to seeing the power and romance with God and seeing the dead form of the ones
that say they are children of the original father but they were fearful children
that knew not the heart of the fathers, no only the interpretation which had
become powerless and led to bondage. So it is with the religions of the day.
They had become only salt to block the door to life so that the son of man had
to find solace elsewhere and when solace came the religions of the day
interpreted it as breaking their interpretation of the form and without spirit
leading him out of it and showing him the mystery through the separate (evil,
as the interpreters interpret) deeds of the fearful that interpret the form
revealed the true word of God that was already in his heart. Therefore will the
interpretation of a great form decay and become the antichrist as the
interpretations of the pharasees led them to temper Jesus. And being tempered he
understood the original spirit. Thus understood the last will be first and the
first will be last.
About how a man that was intent on following God by praying his intent to God
of a life that was very wonderful where he could create songs and meets someone
that would like to see the fruit get out and the person has the resources and
how lets say that they liked each other before figuring all this out. And then
came along the interpreters,,, and they ask the man of his life and he says
that he was fortunate to have this in his life. But the Interpretors
(religious, judges) see that he has violated a law of God in that he wrote
songs and she had money and they believed because of this particular
interpretation of “anyone that does this type situation is an abomination and
should be thrown out of the assembly” so they believing the letter would
proceed to say that the thing, “evil interpretation of a scripture” was really
in their mind and not in the intent of the heart of this man. So it is with
religion, like one of the smallest of points that changes the whole equations
and renders the interpretor the sinner and not the one that was interpreted as
Ungodly. So it is with the interpretations of the builders. Not knowing the
intent of the heart but only seeing something they inerpret as the mans intent
they judge him. So which one is evil from this understanding. The man that had
the intention to follow God. Or the interpretors that believed him evil because
of how they interpreted his intent? This is the story of my life with
christians. That as spirit led me to understand things it was through the
interpretations of those that knew not the spirit but worshiped the words that
my life took form and understanding what the intentions of the fathers were
from a very different perspective than the conditions that exist now that so
many are using words meant for another time and context to judge everyone. And
doing so are blocking the door to life, and without knowing it they are
persecuting countless billions in history and even in this generation. So
though these same will say I blaspheme it is only the interpretation they
worship as God that yes I blaspheme, yet they continually in their
interpretation and judgments blasheme spirit.
Last edited by DNATREE on 02-20-2002 at 08:05 AM
DNATREE
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Because of the fall, (belief in the fall) man is
veiled and does not know he has never left the garden. Ask anything of the
father and it will be done. Turn around bright eyes,
DNATREE
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Dogma Separates, Love Integrates
They had the scriptures but when Jesus came they
could not recognise him by looking at him through the veil of their
interterpretation. Jesus took the one thing they overlooked about faith and
love and leveled their temple. (tree cut down, no fruit, not one stone on top
of another) How much greater will the wrath be of the modern interpreters.
While having the very words that speak that you should love your neihbor what
is the fruit of Christianity? Separation, War (We Are Right), because they
believe they are right they feel they have the right to take the choices of
others.
Dogma Separates, Love Integrates
Dogma Chains, Love allows
Love ernestly wants to understand others
Love indeed fulfills all scribbling by scribes (scripture)
The moment is near that christianity will be changed, all things will become
new, and not one stone (precept) will be left on top of another.
Now we see through a glass dimly, this love will unite those that were formally
far apart. Islam and Christian, as you and I. But the builders of religion,
that love being right will not have it and their god (book) will give them
power to spew hate and separatism.
But when the perfect comes, that book will be fulfilled, not as the builders
interpret, but as it has always been done from the beginning. Were you here
when the nations fell 26000 yrs ago.
Those that believe they are right,,, because they have all 66 books written by
man whose number is 6 in there head, or in their hand. And they have told the
begger on the street that he is wrong,,, Get ready,, for I will make the begger
right and take the rightness from the "right people" for they are
blocking the door between "you and I" on this planet. And they will
say "he has done this to me" but it is what came out of their mouth
that defiled them. I do not want you to recieve what you want others to recieve
by believing it.. Was it not written, ask ANYTHING OF THE FATHER. Why would you
create a hell for others. Again it is scribbled by scribes "What comes out
of your mouth will defile you" Could we not ask OF THE FATHER that the
blood that flows up to the bridle be the blood of billions,, already paid for
since the foundation of the earth,, written on our hears.... BUST HER HYMEN,,,,
TEAR THE VEIL OF HER HEART AND REVEAL THE SECRETS, the true circumcision is of
the heart. The smallest of points will soon alter the largest of equations and
render all the interpretations meaningless... so that all may be fulfilled.
Here is love,, for I was put in a garden with twelve trees (earth) (tribes) My
love who tended the garden said that I could eat from all the twelve trees,,
just do not eat from the one tree that says that some is good and some is evil,,
Love integrates/ dogma separates Stephentree
Atheist_Divine
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Location: UK
Posts: 551
dog·ma (dôgm, dg-)
n. pl. dog·mas or dog·ma·ta (-m-t)
An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion,
especially one considered to be absolutely true.
[Latin, from Greek, opinion, belief, from dokein, to seem, think. See dek- in
Indo-European Roots.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
You don't have a dogma? You don't, say, believe the Bible is true or that Jesus
died on the cross? Both of those things are dogmas.
Everyone interprets what they read when they read it - if you cannot interpret
something through the medium of your understanding/experience of the world, and
your understanding and knowledge of the English (or Greek, or Hebrew or
whatever) language, then how can you understand it? What the Bible says is
filtered in your mind through things you have heard others say about its
doctrines, your understanding of the meaning of the words in our present
culture, and what you think. So I don't see how you can condemn interpretation
when it is what everyone does.
__________________
"Reason should be the basis of every activity, reflection
must come before any undertaking" (Sirach 37:16)
"Fight to the death for truth..." (Sirach 4:28a)
My Website
WorldBeliefs Forum
DNATREE
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It is not dogma that was to lead you into all
truth, it was spirit,, everybody has come short of the glory of God, all have
gone their own way and not followed spirit,, so since everybody has done it,
does that make it right. Will it be said, well everybody in Christianity did
it, so why is it wrong to believe we are right? If it was told us to believe
anything and the father will give it to you then why would we want to believe
something that is not love, why would we want to condemn all but those that
believe the book to hell. Will it not be the believers of religion that should
recieve what they believe about others. (Not that they will, for that is what
the blood of christ has paid for, christians will see that) Remember though
they had a whole nation following a religion, not one was right. From a
STRANGER or BEGGER on the street not blinded by fearful dogma this would be the
nature of what happens to religion.
DNATREE
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Scripture = Engraven Image
Scripture,, it comes from the word engraven image,,
without spirit and
context to which it was given,, the bible,, the koran,, all things are
but idols blocking the door between you and I...
Religion is sin,, separation from each other...
You see God will not change, the fire of the light of spirit reveals
the stubble from the wheat, being separate is hell, and we are
perfectly free to create that. When modern interpretation leads to a
hell where one is taken and another left, and somehow being right is
not as fulfilling as loving each other, then we will find the truth in
all of this. The right people of this age will be made wrong.. and the
whole world will thank God for that. Or thank each other, as there is
only you and I,, no one would like to believe that it has been you and
I from the start, that is what Jesus was saying but none would have
it. Don't you think that your heart would have come complete with the
blood of billions, slain from the foundation of the earth. Don't you
think that a memory of this passion play called life would exist. In
my loneliness, in my bewilderness, through my broken heart, (life)
she/he/heart came. The right people won't have it, they love the idea
of being right more than they love you or I. Without spirit and
context to which it was given, the bible, the koran, all things are
but Idols blocking the door between you and I. If you are separated
from the least of them,, you do not know me. Enjoy the idea of being
right, self rightious, for it will perish!!!
Ken
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Posts: 1948
We hope you are here for more than monlouges. If
you are not, all your posts will be deleted. If you are very sure about your
position, that it can be defended, then you should not fear direct interaction.
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
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DNATREE
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Well that is better than most... most keep people
from hearing my words no matter what... yes I will reply,,, but I have to take
your questions and put them on the altar,,, if I get an answer I will post it.
What is on my heart.. or what is on this table
Or like an altar from long ago conveying the things my heart wishes to know...
A lot of what I look at is the intent of the heart,,, If you are only
interested in being right.... then I will allow you to feel that... but if your
desire to love and understand each other is greater than your desire to be
right... then I am not waisting my time.
Ken
Administrator
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Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
Well DNA, there are several observations to be made
thus far.
First, you criticize others for "wanting to be right" you want to do
the very same thing. You come out and begin saying that other's beliefs are
false, and that "your way" is the truth. Now if this isn't claiming
to be "right", I do not know what is. In other words, you are being
hypocritical for condemning in others what you yourself do.
Secondly, while you say that you want love to be the motive in
discussion, (which is of course yet another example of you claiming to be
"right") and I agree that this path is the best to follow, since this
is what the Bible commands, we have a problem to overcome first and foremost.
This is: how do you define love? Further, the moment you claim to be able to
define it you are once again violating your maxim that other's must follow,
while you may disregard it at will. At any rate, lets talk about the definition
of love, perhaps we can proceed from there, for I am no mood to waste time
either. And if you have another issue that weighs heavily on your mind, and you
wish to discuss it, then by all means, suggest away....
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
DNATREE
Senior
Member
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Location:
Posts: 222
This is fruit,, it is not dogma... it is really
between my life and I.. I am not condemning. The dogma man worships as God
condemns, it is this condemnation that one feels when their beliefs are shown
to not be of God. Because they feel that if they are wrong they could go to
hell,, they feel the condemnation of their own beliefs not mine. This is my
covenant with my God, It left no stone unturned, and made all things new. It is
when we look in a mirror that we get most angry. I don't ask that one person
believe me. If the spirit leads you to fruit, then eat. But Christians have no
idea how separate they are from others, nor the pain they cause others by
forcing the whole world to follow their interpretation which soon will be shown
to have little to do with the original intent. They say love,, yet they will
kill more than the billions killed in the name of hate, and WHAT GIVES THEM THE
POWER... IT IS A BOOK OF WORDS THAT THEY HAVE INTERPRETED, VERY SOON THE
GREATEST GOOD WILL BE SHOWN TO BE THE GREATEST EVIL, WHEN THEY LOOK UPON WHOM
THEY HAVE PIERCED. Therefore, what is the difference between the beast and this
large group of interpreters that demand the whole world worship their interpretation.
You see the true meaning of spirit is not to give a book to follow but to show
that if you have a king and follow anything other than heart, YOU WILL GO
ASTRAY. Therefore it is written, not one JOT not TIDDLE until all be fulfilled.
But when love comes,, all else will cease.. Don't believe me, but do believe
your own God!!!!!! In history,, whenever a prophet was sent they rejected
them.. and funny how no religion has been ratified by the one that said he
would come. On the contrary,, he SCATTERED EVERYONE! From another spiritual
perspective christians are blindly killing believing they are loving. I lost
all I owned because the right people felt justified because they did not
understand me. I was antichrist,, and lived in the wilderness because I had no
home. Being right is not what is important, soon we will find out what is, we
will find out if our desire to love and understand each other is greater than
our desires to be right. For there is none right,,,, no not one.
Guest
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scripture = engraven image
DNA,
''the talk'' has to match ''the walk''.
the talk comes from the mouth
BUT
''the walk'' comes from the heart.
and
there is DIFFERENCE.........A HUGE GULF...... A huge giant chasm.
DNA. remember this one fact.
...........................FEW find eternal
life.......................................
Jesus Christ says ''not everyone who says to Me on that day'' etc etc..
why?
these were the ''mouth men''
not
the ''heart men''....
and
there is a huge difference....
most are the talkers...the evil doers...who talk their way out of the kingdom
of heaven
the few are the walkers....who like BROTHER ENOCH, walked with God.
the difference is enormous....
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
DNA, you wrote
quote:
For there is none right,,,, no
not one.
Therefore, you are not right either.
And then
quote:
Therefore it is written, not one
JOT not TIDDLE until all be fulfilled. But when love comes,, all else will
cease..
Awww, thats just YOUR interpretation.... and why should I believe that?
quote:
But Christians have no idea how separate
they are from others,
Oh yes we do!
(2 Cor 6:17 NNAS) "Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE
SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I
will welcome you.
(Heb 11:13-16 NNAS) All these died in faith, without receiving the promises,
but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having
confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. {14} For
those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of
their own. {15} And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which
they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. {16} But as it is,
they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not
ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them."
So not only do we know this, indeed, we are commanded to be separate!
So are you wanting fruit DNA? Then you must realize that the only lasting fruit
you will ever produce must come from the Holy Spirit. (Gal 5:22-23 NNAS) But
the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
faithfulness, {23} gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no
law.
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
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scripture = engraven image
DNA....sees the TALKERS ken,
he does NOT see the walkers....
and that is dna'S WHOLE POINT.
u dont GET IT,
Guest
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scripture =engraven image
cont.
LOVE, is the key.
and without love, all the talk and all the study and all the scriptures are
useless.... it is this simple...
and so....... define LOVE.... OR BETTER YET......
.......................DEFINE GODS LOVE....
Jhn 3.16. and
john 14.V.21-23.
THATS THE love God wants.
men give to God everything HE DOES NOT WANT.
DNA is expressing this in a fantasy form. like a story...
what love do ''christians so called'' give HIM?....
IT is the only ''so called- army'' that is mostly filled with traitors.
Talk is cheap and so gushy, and so many LIES, KEN and this world PROVES them
all...
religious-people GOT IT WRONG, it looks good on paper BUT does not work when
the INSTRUCTIONS are set aside. You see
they failed to follow God's HOLY instruction book but made up their own one...called
''i did it my way and my way is right''.
..................a form.............. it is described as,
thats why now it has become..........
''just as it was in the days of Noah etc etc''...
i wonder where all the 9 fruits of the spirit drifted off too??
looks like they excaped.
the religious talked about them but forgot to use them.. hehehehehe.......
DNA has some good points... just a different expression...
but it just PROVES ONE THING.... this world DOES NOT SEE.....CHRIST... anymore.
and no amount of huffing and puffing and serpent excuses shall make it
otherwise.
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
I rather disagree Betty. In fact, DNA does not
realize that he has no point, for he is mired in Subjectivism, giving him no
basis what so ever for defining love. He talks a lot about how important love
is, and remember, I agreed with him that it is indeed important, but I
have pointed out to him that since he seems to want to leave the Scriptures
behind as the only rule for faith and practice, he has no foundation upon which
to declare to anyone what "love" even means.
Further, he goes on about "interpretations" and how all of them are
wrong (except his), and yet fails to realize that he "interprests"
every bit as much as anyone else.
He wants to define what spiritual fruit is, and then attempts to define outside
of the biblical parameters. Again, why should I accept his interpretation of
what spiritual fruit is?
So the point here is that he dogmatically asserts that dogma is wrong, and is
ever involved in contradictions. I agree with him that love is important, that
fruit is important, etc. I am disagreeing with how he defines these terms, and
how he arrives at his conclusions.
Now, do you get it?
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
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scripture =engraven image
well ken,
DNA cannot see ''the fruit'' he is looking for, for all there is IS chatterers
shouting mixed truth with paganism....mostly.
PLAY-ACTORS, mascquarading, as ''christians''....mostly.
when u have a world, gone insane, where is THE FRUIT of the Holy Spirit?
who is standing for ''the church'', in a nation at war??????
when u have the days of Noah KEN, staring you IN THE FACE, where is the fruit
KENNETH??????
GET REAL
PEACE is a fruit
LOVE IS a fruit......and the 7 others TO BE DISPLAYED in a person.
D.I.S.P.L.A.Y.E.D...... ON SHOW.. LOOKED AT...
where KEN where can DNA look?
get real and stop being a new age avatar cartoon.
Dwayne
Senior
Member
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Nova Scotia,Canada
Posts: 638
I just briefly read this whole post , and i thought
about comenting ,but to be honest i dont know what this is about , and i
wouldnt know whos side i was on .
What do you have to do sit cross legged and hummm to understand what dna is
saying?
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
You are Wonder- full my love,,, understand this and
you will create volumes... In my loneliness, in my bewilderness,,, through my
broken heart,, she came. There is none right,, no not one... don't follow me...
follow the spirit that led you to me,, yes take eat.. but like fruit,, only
take what is nourishing,,, I.. am bursting forth as many roses on this vine,,,
and my fragrance will draw all men unto me.... hearts will unfold like flowers
before me..
Many think I am saying that I am ,,, but I am saying I am a vessel,, don't you
know the rocks will be shouting soon.
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
Dwayne, to be honest, the answer is yes. And, well,
the answer is no. The answer is rather like the sound of one hand clapping with
a deafening sound. Like the effervescence of the smell of blue, as it shines
invisibly throughout the universe. For only those blind to the things of this
world can see it. Yea, and verily, twas brilig in the slithy tove. But not I,
no!, forsooth and forsake the idea!!. Instead, empty yourself that the fullness
may come. So that being empty, you can be full, and being full, you can be
purple. So forgo the leisure of Lothlorien, and face hard and steadfast towards
the nazgul, the wraiths, yea, even against Sauraman and Saruan, the epitome on
fullofselfness, so that by being weak, you can be invincible, empowered by the
essence of hobbitness. Fly!! Fly!! And in your mind, gaze lovingly and
longingly and the lint in your belly button. Know that the lint is there for
you, a part of you and yet, seperate from you as the two of you are one. And
being seperate, celebrate your unity in individuality, realizing the through
this, and the Vulcan mind meld, the secrets of the universe are open to you.
Signed, lovingly, Katamirshvishnuwalawalabingbang.
(friends may call and donate any funds towards my universal personal cause by
writing checks out to "Kata", and may call at BR549)
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
Russo
Senior
Member
Registered: May 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 369
ROFLOL \o/
DNATREE
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Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Looking throught the veil, I only see you, my life,
Empty yourself so that you can recieve the fullness,, I like that..
Love is intention,, fear is reaction
Seeing those in a chat room about religion,,,, feels like separation when we
argue fuss and fight...
Dreaming again about a movie that was about the great explosion that some want
to have happen so that they would feel right...(And the movie is called YOU AND
I.. how about if love transmutes that desire into a wonderful explosion of
ideas. Ideas begin to come alive for us,, .. (let me see if you see it in love)
begin exchanged and growing rapidly.... let's call that the time of rapture....so
that all (both you and I) may be fulfilled. Remember , my love.. Lets make the
jackels running in the wilderness,,,thirsty hearts..... and the water
God........ In my anger, I thought it would be good for you, I want you to know
I do not want that for you.
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
Howdy,
Some observations:
Why do the ones who think that they are fully spirit filled always have trouble
using the normal conventions of communication?
Makes me wonder how the Holy Spirit could have possibly guided such a wonderful
literary text as the Bible.
Why do they always claim to have the truth, but are unable to define it or spit
it out?
All I can say, is that the longer that they can dance and dodge the truth that
they claim, the longer that the truth of what they really are is avoided.
Though wait a second! I think most of us are pretty used to their tactics right
away, and have little difficulty determining their guidance. The Holy Spirit
gives the truth, shares the truth, and guides His children to the truth. Why
the subterfuge? We are not blind!
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
Lydia
Moderator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 3591
Well, anytime anybody advocates setting aside the
Word, its a pretty clear indicator of where they are coming from and what is
motivating them.
__________________
"for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep
that which I have committed unto him against that day." 2 Tm. 1:12
Joshua
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 49
DNA,
You have said "Religion is sin". Correct me if I am wrong, but are
your ideals not orginized and acknowledging some form of Deity greater than you?
If so, you are a religion of one, and thus you contradict yourself.
In addition, The word "scripture" has never in any literary circle
come from the word for "graven image" or anything even remotley
resembling it. The Hebrew word for "scripture"is "Kathab"
(kaw-thawb) meaning "a record or book, a form of written text". In
the Greek, the word for "scripture" is "Graphe" (graf-ay')
meaning "a holy writ, or a document". Your theory is thus
inconsistent with ancient near eastern semantics.
Furthermore, you claim scripture is an idol, yet you freely quote from it. 2
Tim 3:16 says " all scripture is God breathed...". One cannot
arbitarily choose scripture to validate a position and ommit the remainder. I
appears you are using the scripture you condem, to back you preconceived
notions. Thus once again you contradict yourself.
I am truly interested in your beliefs, but your lack of logical thought seems
to indicate once again, elementary human logic applied to the deity.
However, You make a very very valid point. We are guilty of seeking
intillectual affirmation over loving others ( James 2:17).
To this I will concede.
This is simply my humble opinion, so do with it what you will. God Bless.
__________________
Joshua
Phil 1:6
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
22 years ago my life took me through "what is
the word of God" what about the letters where man said this and that about
scripture and they did not know that what they were writing would become
scripture 300 years later. To those that desire to know I will tell them of the
miracles that led to what I know about scripture.. but for now consider that
before you think you feel,,, before writing there was pictures, before words
there was feeling, without words how did we articulate the layers that make up
an idea. Before words were invented was the word, and the same was in the
beginning with God, and God intended, spoke, ernestly and passionatly,,, but it
was not language. This love is like you and I in love,, no words are necessary.
It's big but here is the first
www.stephentree.com/romispirit.mp3
27meg 28 minute poetry
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Christianity must die and love
grow
It does not matter what you want it will find it's way to you, as do
your fears. It does not matter if I am a tribesman in a remote place or if I go
to the depths of anyones personal hell, spirit, heart, dna, is there with you
in that MOMENT. And shows up in a twinkling of an eye.
Very soon the world will find out why it is so that scripture is not the
path.... that scripture more rightly veils causing separation causing death
(requiring you to let go of that life and start fresh,, new) The fruit of DNA
will be BURSTING forth on this planet... you will know them by their fruits..
let go of the veil.. the interpretation that you are hiding behind.. none will
be right.. as shown on this forum, interpretation only leads to separation..
when this gets amplified.. and the separations means death to your friend,
wife, child.. you will then be pierced in your heart and see why the partial
must be done away with and love replace it.. not love as the churches teach for
that will be shown to be the greatest separation.. Because it is a fact that
the veiled will not hear these words, only those that are led by spirit know
what is beyond religion. The supposed sinners on this planet do not need a
teacher... it is the veiled (modern christians) that are sick and need a
physician. I cannot contend with religion much longer. It is time to give it to
the stranger on the street..(I will give it to a people not called by my name)
they see it but the letter has blinded the eyes of the fearful and unbelieving.
Dogma separates/love integrates.. the letter of your dogma will keep you from
hearing my words. Also it is not the words but the spirit,,, words are but
points in the equation.. the spirit is the heigth, depth, and width.
www.stephentree.com
2 urls removed by Admin
Russo
Senior
Member
Registered: May 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 369
errr ...
"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except
through me."
God is love, but love is not God.
You say that "scripture is not the path." Well, scripture (I assume
you refer to the Bible) is God's revelation of Himself to mankind.
Perhaps I'm a little dense, but what do you mean by "the fruit of
DNA?"
"The supposed sinners on this planet do not need a teacher." Really?
How shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they
believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a
preacher?
I'll go so far as to say that many "christians" aren't. Many
churchgoers are as blind as those who have never heard. This is quite
unfortunate, but in no way suggests that those who are christians are
"veiled" or "need a physician." On the contrary, it is
those who are not christians who are stumbling in a cloud of darkness, and who
need the light of the gospel.
It is time to give what to the man on the street??
Russo
Lydia
Moderator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 3591
Just in case anyone out there should be mislead by
this nonsense...
2 Tim 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who
does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
Search the Scriptures diligently and you will find no reference to the 'fruit
of DNA'.
DNATree, is most likely one of the, huuuuhhhh, folks that think this human body
is going to be converted to the dna of Christ. I think they base this particular
standpoint on 'to become conformed to the image of His Son' Rom 8:29'.
The context of Romans 8 makes a distinction between the teknon, student and the
huios, or adult son. The adult son is conformed to the image of Christ. In
considering Col. 3:10 "and have put on the new self who is being renewed
to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created"
renewed to a true knowledge ....we are to renew our minds daily.
Considering that the pastor-teacher is given fin Eph 4....for......
"for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building
up of the body of Christ;
13
until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of
the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to
the fullness of Christ."
......
20
But you did not llearn Christ in this way,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as
truth is in Jesus,
22
that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self,
which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
23
and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24
and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in
righteousness and holiness of the truth.
Add to this that love toward and from God is a product of knowledge per 1 John
3, then I would say coming to rightly divide is essential for conformation to
the image of Christ.
We have the 'mind of Christ' in our hot little hands.
Of course we certainly understand that anyone preaching something outside of
the Scripture is going to preach setting aside the letter. After all it doesn't
do to shine the light of truth on skubala.
__________________
"for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep
that which I have committed unto him against that day." 2 Tm. 1:12
Christian
Senior
Member
Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Missouri
Posts: 488
DNA -
Wow! What a fulfillment of Romans 1:18-32, showing how people supress the
truth!
Shane
__________________
"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to them that put their trust in
Him. Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a
liar." Proverbs 30:6,7
Last edited by Christian on
01-03-2002 at 09:54 PM
Evangelist
Moderator
Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 658
"ever learning, but never able to come to a
knowledge of the truth..."
__________________
In the service of Jesus Christ
BroHank
"Even so Lord Jesus, come quickly"
http://www.john812.com
http://masterstable.john812.com
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
If the Scriptures are not authoritative, then on what
basis should I accept ANYTHING you say as authoritative!?!?
What interpretation are you hiding behind?
And why are you allowing this interpretation to separate you from Christ? And
His body?
What is your definition of “love”? And why should I accept it?
Suppose it is YOUR heart that is veiled? (2 Cor 4:3-6 NNAS) "And even if
our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
{4} in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the
unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of
Christ, who is the image of God. {5} For we do not preach ourselves but Christ
Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake. {6} For
God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who
has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God
in the face of Christ."
It is indeed the sinners who are sick! Jesus said so! Am I to take your word
over His? (not likely) (Mat 9:12 NNAS) "But when Jesus heard this, He
said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but
those who are sick."
I cannot contend with religion any longer either!!
You said
quote:
Dogma separates/love
integrates..
Awww, this sounds very dogmatic
of you! Where is your toleration now? This dogma of yours just separates you
from the Body of Christ, which, in effect, means you are separated from LIFE.
But I would venture to say that the letter of your dogma prevents you from
hearing the gospel.
You said
quote:
Also it is not the words but the
spirit,,, words are but points in the equation.. the spirit is the heigth,
depth, and width.
Why then do you use words to describe this as spiritual? And if you can use
words to describe the spiritual, why can’t the Christian? This seems very hypocritical
of you.
Lastly, (Rom 8:38-39 NNAS) "For I am convinced that neither death, nor
life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, {39} nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be
able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our
Lord."
These are the dimensions of the spirit you ought to be concerned about. Without
Christ, you are a dead man walking.
Please, come to Christ, He IS your ONLY hope.
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
Theolog2
Senior
Member
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Selma Oregon
Posts: 1148
TIME FOR AN OVER HAUL
DNUTTREE
I have heard your spirit before. It was in a dark place. Always finding fault
with others and never at peace. This demon has put a cookie in your hard drive
causing you to bring up bad data. Time to delete everything and reformat. Turn
to Jesus. Read your Holy Bible.
__________________
1 Corinthians 1:26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not
many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many
were of noble birth.
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God
chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and
the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,
29 so that no one may boast before him.
30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for
us wisdom from God that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.
31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who 
Christian
Senior
Member
Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Missouri
Posts: 488
Ken -
I appreciate your exposing the relativism of the thread starter's post.
Shane
__________________
"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to them that put their trust in
Him. Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a
liar." Proverbs 30:6,7
DNATREE
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Posts: 222
Soon we will find out if our desire to be right
(rightious) is greater than our desire to love and understand each other.
The smallest of points will soon alter the largest of equations and render all
the interpretations meaningless.. thus fulfilling all scribbling by scribes...
www.stephentree.com/forgive.htm
Christian
Senior
Member
Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Missouri
Posts: 488
"Blessed are they which do
hunger and thirst after righteousness; for they shall be filled" Matt 5:6
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness exceed
the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into
the kingdom of heaven" Matt 5:20
__________________
"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to them that put their trust in
Him. Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a
liar." Proverbs 30:6,7
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Exactly,,, unless our interpretation of rightness
goes beyond the scribes (scribbling of scribes) you will NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM
OF GOD. I am saying nothing you don't already know, now it is time to believe
it. Without spirit it is impossible to please God. Yet how many know spirit
that say "we are right" WAR=we are right. They do not know spirit,
they know their interpretation which they demand everybody worship as though
their interpretation were God.
Christian
Senior
Member
Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Missouri
Posts: 488
DNA-
Now some dialogue, and I'm glad, as long as it is open and honest discussion in
an objective manner on a topic. I'm not much for just reading someones
monologue over and over, especially when it is so relativistic like your's has
been so far.
It would be beneficial if we can first define righteousness, according to the
Scriptures.....not your (or mine) own subjective definition or undestanding of
it. This righteousness that Jesus was speaking of is surely of most importance,
and evidently to be hungering and thirsty for it is a blessing from God. First
of all, to make a correction to your statement 'without spirit it is impossible
to please God', when the Scripture's say:
"Without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God
must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek
Him" Hebrews 11:6
1. First off I'd like to know if you have faith that the Scriptures are the
word of God, because in one of your first posts it seemed to indicate that you
do not have confidence in the Scriptures. Do you have the confidence that the
Scriptures are true? If so, then we might be able to discuss them objectively;
if not...
2. then I would ask you what ground you have for making any judgements at all,
about things like 'righteousness' or 'love'.
Those terms are not up for grabs. They are Biblical terms and they mean
something, not just what we want them to mean.
3. Do you think it is 'wrong' for someone to really want to be sure he (or she)
is right? If so, are you so right? If not, then let's talk about that.
Shane
__________________
"Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to them that put their trust in
Him. Add thou not unto His words, lest He reprove thee, and thou be found a
liar." Proverbs 30:6,7
DNATREE
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1. For the word you seek is very near to you, even
in your mouth and in your heart and you do not need a teacher, Deut. Scripture
is profitable but without spirit it is death. I cannot serve two masters at
once, there was a point in my life where spirit nailed the new law,
interpretation to the cross.
2. Judgements,,, don't let my words bother you, this is my life, it is fruit.
As one that walked out into the wilderness and could not read even if the world
had given him an instruction manual. Did I go out to understand what the world
wanted me to know. Did I seek the letter that man made or spirit that was to be
found only in spirit.
3. Right,,, the smallest of points can alter a gene and change the entire
equation. That is the problem with dogma, the smallest thing overlooked, and
you are wrong. What does it matter if you are right. A couple that were
argueing named Afghan and BlessAmerica, they at one time were you and I, but
they would rather destroy the house than live in it together. Is your desire to
be right greater than your desire to love and understand each other. You do it
unto the least of the brothers you have done it unto me. If we moved in spirit,
even if we were wrong, spirit would make us right. You may not understand but
if you were passing Abraham as he was about to kill his son on the altar would
you have understood before it was all written as scripture?
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
Theo,
Nuke and pave your hard drive! I love it! Though
this one may take a low level format.
Russo,
Long time no hear from! I hope all is well in the down under. I am glad to see
that you are back.
DNA,
You mention that Christian love is not real love. What is your definition of
real love. I find my definition in the Greek word agape, defined in 1 Cor. 13.
If you can, please give it a read (KJV uses the term, somewhat outdated,
charity, but it really means love) and let me know how your definition of real
love strays from the definition of Christian love.
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."
Joshua
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 49
DNA,
Your vague generalizations need to be defind if you expect others to think logically
on your position. What is the point of posting personal philisophical ramblings
if others cannot define your vernacular.
What is "spirit"?, and what part does this nebulas entity play in
your thought process. There are obvious distinctions between your
"spirit" and the "Holy Spirit" within me.
If your love for others is so overwhelming and or you hold understanding that
we are missing, please lay it out clearly.
You seem to contradict yourself, left and right, which indicates to me that
your position is nothing more than human logic and thus completely worthless.
I am truly interested in your belief system, but your love is without merit if
you are not understood.
God Bless
__________________
Joshua
Phil 1:6
DNATREE
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It is the job of spirit to
teach, my job is to show what spirit has done in my life, and offer it as fruit
to be used by spirit. In order to understand what I am saying it would take
intention and love. You cannot approach me with intentions that indicate that
you are right and exspect to understand me. Because it takes an empty cup to
recieve anything. Most christians believe they are already rich in spirit. But
like the trickle of water in the wilderness that after time turned into a lush
garden, so it is with a relationship with spirit. Spirit recognizes spirit. But
man that believes he is right because he read a book already has his
inheritance. If you are seeking bread from heaven do you go to the kitchen and
eat? No, you fast,, and have fervent, passionate intention that you desire the bread
of life. A man believing he already is full will recieve nothing. If I have
shivered any man's timbers then let him seek from God. If you are already full
then we will see if you have enough oil, for the time is indeed short.
DNATREE
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They can read what is in front of them.. but they
will never fathom real love.
Love Integrates, Dogma Separates
Love Allows, Dogma Chains
Love ernestly strives to understand others
Love indeed fullfills all scribbling by scribes
The point that the builders overlooked,
It is not religion we want, it's relationship
There is only one, though now there seems to be
You and I
us and them
east and west
islam and christian
right and left
bride and bridegroom
husband and wife
you and heart
There is only you and I and you and I are one
You (my life) you are my heart and I can't help but love you.
If I told you clearly you would not understand,,, don't you know why it was
that they were to wonder after him.
You are wonder-full understand this and you will be and empty vessel ready to be
filled in each moment.
If it was relationship that the bridegroom wants to see then obviously
Christianity is a veil!
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
I vote Moonie on this one.
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
Tom Dalke
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Winnipeg Canada
Posts: 45
Don't Be Deceived!
To have a relationship there must be more than one.
In the Christians case, it is the Word who was in the beginning with God to
whom we seek to have relationship with. "The Word (Jesus Christ) became
flesh and dwelt amongst us and we beheld His glory as the glory of the only
begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."
Love is from God and is in fact the Eternal nature of God and as such when
given to us it should be directed back towards God through the Word according
to the Scriptures. There simply is no other way. For the Word who was before
time began has revealed this to us, who alone is forever blessed, amen.
Any concept of relationship through "spirit" or any other means,
usurps the Word's preeminent place in the redemptive love relationship of
mankind through the Word to God and is not from the Spirit of the Triune God,
it is then either from the "spirit" of man (i.e. human reason and
therefore it is a worthless idol) or it is of the "spirit" of this
world (i.e. and its author is Satan)
The Word say's:
I AM the Way, the Truth, the Life, no-one comes to the Father (i.e. the
fullness of love) apart from Me."
In Christ
Thomas
DNATREE
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Scripture = Engraven Image
Scripture,, it comes from the
word engraven image,, without spirit and
context to which it was given,, the bible,, the koran,, all things are
but idols blocking the door between you and I...
Religion is sin,, separation from each other...
You see God will not change, the fire of the light of spirit reveals
the stubble from the wheat, being separate is hell, and we are
perfectly free to create that. When modern interpretation leads to a
hell where one is taken and another left, and somehow being right is
not as fulfilling as loving each other, then we will find the truth in
all of this. The right people of this age will be made wrong.. and the
whole world will thank God for that. Or thank each other, as there is
only you and I,, no one would like to believe that it has been you and
I from the start, that is what Jesus was saying but none would have
it. Don't you think that your heart would have come complete with the
blood of billions, slain from the foundation of the earth. Don't you
think that a memory of this passion play called life would exist. In
my loneliness, in my bewilderness, through my broken heart, (life)
she/he/heart came. The right people won't have it, they love the idea
of being right more than they love you or I. Without spirit and
context to which it was given, the bible, the koran, all things are
but Idols blocking the door between you and I. If you are separated
from the least of them,, you do not know me. Enjoy the idea of being
right, self rightious, for it will perish!!!
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
We hope you are here for more than monlouges. If
you are not, all your posts will be deleted. If you are very sure about your
position, that it can be defended, then you should not fear direct interaction.
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
DNATREE
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Well that is better than most... most keep people
from hearing my words no matter what... yes I will reply,,, but I have to take
your questions and put them on the altar,,, if I get an answer I will post it.
What is on my heart.. or what is on this table
Or like an altar from long ago conveying the things my heart wishes to know...
A lot of what I look at is the intent of the heart,,, If you are only
interested in being right.... then I will allow you to feel that... but if your
desire to love and understand each other is greater than your desire to be
right... then I am not waisting my time.
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
Well DNA, there are several observations to be made
thus far.
First, you criticize others for "wanting to be right" you want to do
the very same thing. You come out and begin saying that other's beliefs are
false, and that "your way" is the truth. Now if this isn't claiming
to be "right", I do not know what is. In other words, you are being
hypocritical for condemning in others what you yourself do.
Secondly, while you say that you want love to be the motive in discussion,
(which is of course yet another example of you claiming to be
"right") and I agree that this path is the best to follow, since this
is what the Bible commands, we have a problem to overcome first and foremost.
This is: how do you define love? Further, the moment you claim to be able to
define it you are once again violating your maxim that other's must follow,
while you may disregard it at will. At any rate, lets talk about the definition
of love, perhaps we can proceed from there, for I am no mood to waste time
either. And if you have another issue that weighs heavily on your mind, and you
wish to discuss it, then by all means, suggest away....
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
DNATREE
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Posts: 222
This is fruit,, it is not dogma... it is really
between my life and I.. I am not condemning. The dogma man worships as God
condemns, it is this condemnation that one feels when their beliefs are shown
to not be of God. Because they feel that if they are wrong they could go to
hell,, they feel the condemnation of their own beliefs not mine. This is my
covenant with my God, It left no stone unturned, and made all things new. It is
when we look in a mirror that we get most angry. I don't ask that one person
believe me. If the spirit leads you to fruit, then eat. But Christians have no idea
how separate they are from others, nor the pain they cause others by forcing
the whole world to follow their interpretation which soon will be shown to have
little to do with the original intent. They say love,, yet they will kill more
than the billions killed in the name of hate, and WHAT GIVES THEM THE POWER...
IT IS A BOOK OF WORDS THAT THEY HAVE INTERPRETED, VERY SOON THE GREATEST GOOD
WILL BE SHOWN TO BE THE GREATEST EVIL, WHEN THEY LOOK UPON WHOM THEY HAVE
PIERCED. Therefore, what is the difference between the beast and this large
group of interpreters that demand the whole world worship their interpretation.
You see the true meaning of spirit is not to give a book to follow but to show
that if you have a king and follow anything other than heart, YOU WILL GO
ASTRAY. Therefore it is written, not one JOT not TIDDLE until all be fulfilled.
But when love comes,, all else will cease.. Don't believe me, but do believe
your own God!!!!!! In history,, whenever a prophet was sent they rejected
them.. and funny how no religion has been ratified by the one that said he
would come. On the contrary,, he SCATTERED EVERYONE! From another spiritual
perspective christians are blindly killing believing they are loving. I lost
all I owned because the right people felt justified because they did not
understand me. I was antichrist,, and lived in the wilderness because I had no
home. Being right is not what is important, soon we will find out what is, we
will find out if our desire to love and understand each other is greater than
our desires to be right. For there is none right,,,, no not one.
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scripture = engraven image
DNA,
''the talk'' has to match ''the walk''.
the talk comes from the mouth
BUT
''the walk'' comes from the heart.
and
there is DIFFERENCE.........A HUGE GULF...... A huge giant chasm.
DNA. remember this one fact.
...........................FEW find eternal life.......................................
Jesus Christ says ''not everyone who says to Me on that day'' etc etc..
why?
these were the ''mouth men''
not
the ''heart men''....
and
there is a huge difference....
most are the talkers...the evil doers...who talk their way out of the kingdom
of heaven
the few are the walkers....who like BROTHER ENOCH, walked with God.
the difference is enormous....
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
DNA, you wrote
quote:
For there is none right,,,, no
not one.
Therefore, you are not right either.
And then
quote:
Therefore it is written, not one
JOT not TIDDLE until all be fulfilled. But when love comes,, all else will
cease..
Awww, thats just YOUR interpretation.... and why should I believe that?
quote:
But Christians have no idea how
separate they are from others,
Oh yes we do!
(2 Cor 6:17 NNAS) "Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE
SEPARATE," says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I
will welcome you.
(Heb 11:13-16 NNAS) All these died in faith, without receiving the promises,
but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having
confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. {14} For
those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of
their own. {15} And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which
they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. {16} But as it is,
they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not
ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them."
So not only do we know this, indeed, we are commanded to be separate!
So are you wanting fruit DNA? Then you must realize that the only lasting fruit
you will ever produce must come from the Holy Spirit. (Gal 5:22-23 NNAS) But
the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,
faithfulness, {23} gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no
law.
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
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scripture = engraven image
DNA....sees the TALKERS ken,
he does NOT see the walkers....
and that is dna'S WHOLE POINT.
u dont GET IT,
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scripture =engraven image
cont.
LOVE, is the key.
and without love, all the talk and all the study and all the scriptures are
useless.... it is this simple...
and so....... define LOVE.... OR BETTER YET......
.......................DEFINE GODS LOVE....
Jhn 3.16. and
john 14.V.21-23.
THATS THE love God wants.
men give to God everything HE DOES NOT WANT.
DNA is expressing this in a fantasy form. like a story...
what love do ''christians so called'' give HIM?....
IT is the only ''so called- army'' that is mostly filled with traitors.
Talk is cheap and so gushy, and so many LIES, KEN and this world PROVES them
all...
religious-people GOT IT WRONG, it looks good on paper BUT does not work when
the INSTRUCTIONS are set aside. You see
they failed to follow God's HOLY instruction book but made up their own
one...called ''i did it my way and my way is right''.
..................a form.............. it is described as,
thats why now it has become..........
''just as it was in the days of Noah etc etc''...
i wonder where all the 9 fruits of the spirit drifted off too??
looks like they excaped.
the religious talked about them but forgot to use them.. hehehehehe.......
DNA has some good points... just a different expression...
but it just PROVES ONE THING.... this world DOES NOT SEE.....CHRIST... anymore.
and no amount of huffing and puffing and serpent excuses shall make it
otherwise.
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
I rather disagree Betty. In fact, DNA does not
realize that he has no point, for he is mired in Subjectivism, giving him no
basis what so ever for defining love. He talks a lot about how important love
is, and remember, I agreed with him that it is indeed important, but I
have pointed out to him that since he seems to want to leave the Scriptures
behind as the only rule for faith and practice, he has no foundation upon which
to declare to anyone what "love" even means.
Further, he goes on about "interpretations" and how all of them are
wrong (except his), and yet fails to realize that he "interprests"
every bit as much as anyone else.
He wants to define what spiritual fruit is, and then attempts to define outside
of the biblical parameters. Again, why should I accept his interpretation of
what spiritual fruit is?
So the point here is that he dogmatically asserts that dogma is wrong, and is
ever involved in contradictions. I agree with him that love is important, that
fruit is important, etc. I am disagreeing with how he defines these terms, and
how he arrives at his conclusions.
Now, do you get it?
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
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scripture =engraven image
well ken,
DNA cannot see ''the fruit'' he is looking for, for all there is IS chatterers
shouting mixed truth with paganism....mostly.
PLAY-ACTORS, mascquarading, as ''christians''....mostly.
when u have a world, gone insane, where is THE FRUIT of the Holy Spirit?
who is standing for ''the church'', in a nation at war??????
when u have the days of Noah KEN, staring you IN THE FACE, where is the fruit
KENNETH??????
GET REAL
PEACE is a fruit
LOVE IS a fruit......and the 7 others TO BE DISPLAYED in a person.
D.I.S.P.L.A.Y.E.D...... ON SHOW.. LOOKED AT...
where KEN where can DNA look?
get real and stop being a new age avatar cartoon.
Dwayne
Senior
Member
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Nova Scotia,Canada
Posts: 638
I just briefly read this whole
post , and i thought about comenting ,but to be honest i dont know what this is
about , and i wouldnt know whos side i was on .
What do you have to do sit cross legged and hummm to understand what dna is
saying?
DNATREE
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Posts: 222
You are Wonder- full my love,,, understand this and
you will create volumes... In my loneliness, in my bewilderness,,, through my
broken heart,, she came. There is none right,, no not one... don't follow me...
follow the spirit that led you to me,, yes take eat.. but like fruit,, only
take what is nourishing,,, I.. am bursting forth as many roses on this vine,,,
and my fragrance will draw all men unto me.... hearts will unfold like flowers
before me..
Many think I am saying that I am ,,, but I am saying I am a vessel,, don't you
know the rocks will be shouting soon.
Ken
Administrator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1948
Dwayne, to be honest, the answer is yes. And, well,
the answer is no. The answer is rather like the sound of one hand clapping with
a deafening sound. Like the effervescence of the smell of blue, as it shines
invisibly throughout the universe. For only those blind to the things of this
world can see it. Yea, and verily, twas brilig in the slithy tove. But not I,
no!, forsooth and forsake the idea!!. Instead, empty yourself that the fullness
may come. So that being empty, you can be full, and being full, you can be
purple. So forgo the leisure of Lothlorien, and face hard and steadfast towards
the nazgul, the wraiths, yea, even against Sauraman and Saruan, the epitome on
fullofselfness, so that by being weak, you can be invincible, empowered by the
essence of hobbitness. Fly!! Fly!! And in your mind, gaze lovingly and longingly
and the lint in your belly button. Know that the lint is there for you, a part
of you and yet, seperate from you as the two of you are one. And being
seperate, celebrate your unity in individuality, realizing the through this,
and the Vulcan mind meld, the secrets of the universe are open to you.
Signed, lovingly, Katamirshvishnuwalawalabingbang.
(friends may call and donate any funds towards my universal personal cause by
writing checks out to "Kata", and may call at BR549)
__________________
in the begining God created man in His image, and ever since then, man has been
trying to return the favor
Russo
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Registered: May 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 369
ROFLOL \o/
DNATREE
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Looking throught the veil, I only see you, my life,
Empty yourself so that you can recieve the fullness,, I like that..
Love is intention,, fear is reaction
Seeing those in a chat room about religion,,,, feels like separation when we
argue fuss and fight...
Dreaming again about a movie that was about the great explosion that some want
to have happen so that they would feel right...(And the movie is called YOU AND
I.. how about if love transmutes that desire into a wonderful explosion of
ideas. Ideas begin to come alive for us,, .. (let me see if you see it in love)
begin exchanged and growing rapidly.... let's call that the time of
rapture....so that all (both you and I) may be fulfilled. Remember , my love..
Lets make the jackels running in the wilderness,,,thirsty hearts..... and the
water God........ In my anger, I thought it would be good for you, I want you
to know I do not want that for you.
Witness
Senior
Moment
Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Williamstown, N.J.
Posts: 2104
Howdy,
Some observations:
Why do the ones who think that they are fully spirit filled always have trouble
using the normal conventions of communication?
Makes me wonder how the Holy Spirit could have possibly guided such a wonderful
literary text as the Bible.
Why do they always claim to have the truth, but are unable to define it or spit
it out?
All I can say, is that the longer that they can dance and dodge the truth that
they claim, the longer that the truth of what they really are is avoided.
Though wait a second! I think most of us are pretty used to their tactics right
away, and have little difficulty determining their guidance. The Holy Spirit
gives the truth, shares the truth, and guides His children to the truth. Why
the subterfuge? We are not blind!
John
__________________
Rom. 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master
he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand."
Lydia
Moderator
Registered: Mar 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 3591
Well, anytime anybody advocates setting aside the
Word, its a pretty clear indicator of where they are coming from and what is
motivating them.
__________________
"for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep
that which I have committed unto him against that day." 2 Tm. 1:12
Joshua
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 49
DNA,
You have said "Religion is sin". Correct me if I am wrong, but are
your ideals not orginized and acknowledging some form of Deity greater than
you? If so, you are a religion of one, and thus you contradict yourself.
In addition, The word "scripture" has never in any literary circle
come from the word for "graven image" or anything even remotley
resembling it. The Hebrew word for "scripture"is "Kathab"
(kaw-thawb) meaning "a record or book, a form of written text". In
the Greek, the word for "scripture" is "Graphe" (graf-ay')
meaning "a holy writ, or a document". Your theory is thus
inconsistent with ancient near eastern semantics.
Furthermore, you claim scripture is an idol, yet you freely quote from it. 2
Tim 3:16 says " all scripture is God breathed...". One cannot
arbitarily choose scripture to validate a position and ommit the remainder. I
appears you are using the scripture you condem, to back you preconceived
notions. Thus once again you contradict yourself.
I am truly interested in your beliefs, but your lack of logical thought seems
to indicate once again, elementary human logic applied to the deity.
However, You make a very very valid point. We are guilty of seeking
intillectual affirmation over loving others ( James 2:17).
To this I will concede.
This is simply my humble opinion, so do with it what you will. God Bless.
__________________
Joshua
Phil 1:6
DNATREE
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Member
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Posts: 222
22 years ago my life took me
through "what is the word of God" what about the letters where man
said this and that about scripture and they did not know that what they were
writing would become scripture 300 years later. To those that desire to know I
will tell them of the miracles that led to what I know about scripture.. but
for now consider that before you think you feel,,, before writing there was
pictures, before words there was feeling, without words how did we articulate
the layers that make up an idea. Before words were invented was the word, and
the same was in the beginning with God, and God intended, spoke, ernestly and passionatly,,,
but it was not language. This love is like you and I in love,, no words are
necessary.
It's big but here is the first
www.stephentree.com/romispirit.mp3
27meg 28 minute poetry
Many to come
DNATREE
Senior
Member
Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 222
Forgiveness
It is not for them that
you are forgiving. For it was the fact that you believed them to be to BLAME
that you feel they need forgiveness.
The veil of interpretation is what separates two people. (you and I)
we should never feel SHAME OR BLAME.
Remember the pain in the garden. (shame, eden)
You may not see it but, you chose to live alone (separate from God)
and hide behind a veil. (interpretations about bible)
And like a veil you are still hiding yourself from me. (God, each other)
(the rest of the poem www.stephentree.com/veil.wav )
If you believed "ask anything of the father and it is given to you"
then you would know why you got what you got. Everything is from God. not them.
And it was because you thought it, and believed what you were taught, shown,
Once again, like the stone the builders rejected, our interpretations which if
we don't worship these interpretations, we are labeled wrong, occult, pagan,
Like the stone, overlooked, the smallest of points once again will soon alter
that largest of equations, thus rendering all interpretations meaningless.
Like standing before the veil, in the temple, there is only you and I. If I do
it unto them, I have done it unto you, my love (lord) It is not for them I
forgive, it is because I see that I get exactly what I allow in my heart. They
do not know that when they feel anger, blame, shame, it is like incense rising
from an altar. We get what we have allowed, believed in our hearts. The whole
world seems to be as we believe, A small change to say the least, just like
beauty and the beast. I know they will not hear me, the builders, the
"right people" They worship 66 books, which were interpreted by man
whose number is 6 which after fashioning this idol they demand the whole world
worship their interpretation. Let us forgive them, for they know not what they
do, and again after killing billions in the name of rightiousness, they will
soon look upon whom they have pierced. Without spirit, the bible, the koran,
all things are but idols blocking the door between you and I my love.
I have had everything taken from me in my life because of what spirit has given
me. Yet their is no blame, for I know that it was created to show me the
greatest love, that is only seen from the tearing of the veil between you and
I.
The right people that worship an interpretation, (we never needed to be right,
that was what grace taught) these same have taken the choices from countless
millions, in this country it is impossible without spirit to live without being
forced to believe what our fathers handed us at birth. The knowledge of such a
thing as good and evil. When the Good that christians worship is finally shown
to be the greatest antichrist that ever existed,...........
Anyway, seeing who you are in the light of the torn veil between you and I,
holy place and holy of holies eliminates the reality, or need for forgiveness.
You live in spirit where there is only Christ, or God and you and what is done
to them you do it unto him, and when you see what is really on your heart it
will know why it was allowed inside your world, because the belief in it was in
your temple. Impossible to remove without spirit. Stephentree P. Steven Spence