Oroborus

stillhere · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 952

Fortunately I am blessed with wonderful neighbors....the kind that when we had that scarey widespread massive power outage everal summer ago, all joined together setting up grills on their front lawns cooking all the freezer meats up that would have spoiled, all fixing a massive block supper..every one all out on the street with flashlights, camper lights, etc. keeping each other's spirits up.
Do you honestly not realize I am giving you an example of aggressive behavior like people experienced in europe as Hitler's Germany rolled over them? Or just pretending you do not get the point? While you were busy licking the boots of the gestapo, they were tossing your Jewish neighbor on the trains. While you were trying to talk nice to them they were busy burning down your whole neighborhood. What did you have to do to "earn" their respect? Baking a cake and talking nice didn't work..gthey still torched your house and shot you.

River · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 7071

OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Brock is now radioactive...Oh NOoooooo, the cake is glowing green.....!!!!!!!!!!!!

Twisted Evil

River

River · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 7071

I'll take Brock's naivety, empty protest and hestiancy over Stillhere's quick finger on the nuke button and rush to judgement, fear and paranoia any day of the week!

River

edited for spelling errors

dnatree · Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 3052

Just like those that will die, all that remain will be changed in a moment. For they will be reached even to the heart.
_________________
"Only that which cannot be taken away by death is real. Everything else is unreal, it is made of the same stuff dreams are made of." - Osho
Rumi says:
Love is best when mixed with anguish.
In our town, we won't call you a Lover if you escape the pain.

River · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 7071

Yeah, I have seen the white light!

Instead of doing Jungian shadow work, we will leave our shadows etched into the brick and cement...the irony

River

Brock · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 6317

Wouldn't it be cool if we get what we give?
_________________
"It is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them."

Mark Twain

RyeLiz · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 2608

LunaBaby · Reincarnamod Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 5497

Brock · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 6317

I can hear gentleness again. Maybe it was the "pondering" approach Luna stated. May mother earth be healed by humans wrongdoing...and vice versa.

I can only imagine how depressing the earth looks from out in space...such beauty in color and form with blasts from the survace indicating humans' plight.
_________________
"It is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them."

Mark Twain

stillhere · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 952

SIGH....once again in rides snarky River with ASSUMPTIONS and ALLEGATIONS! River - how the h++l do you see anything in what I expressed insinuating that I would have a "quick finger on the nuke button" or "rush to judgement, fear and paranoia"??????? Good grief!! Talk about living in your own small mind wherein you make up your own "facts"! Lol....you are too much. FEAR - people in europe and the Pacific had no fear of Germany or Japan invading their countries and killing their people???? No FEAR there??? Oh, they were just laboring under PARANOIA! I see.......Did Pres. Truman have a "quick finger on the nuke button"? So, it is NOT TRUE that he took ample time to forewarn the Japanese government - not ONCE, but TWICE? Did Truman "rush to judgement" when he considered that ending WW II by using the atomic bombs would save untold millions of lives?
Oh, let me ask you, River...did Japan "rush to jusgement" and act out of "fear and paranoia" when they decided to bomb Pearl Harbor? History shows us that Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor was a pretty well planned out and pre-practiced event. Did Hitler "rush to judgement" or act out of "fear and paranoia" when he decided to exterminate europe's Jewish population? No, history shows us he cleverly manipulated his way into power in Germany by convincing the Germans that the Jews were responsible for all their problems. Right from the onset he had his evil "master plan" and knew EXACTLY what he intended to do. The same planned aggression was evident in the Japanese's planned conquering of countries in Pacific Asia.
Luna is correct - OBVIOUSLY the peoples of the 1930s and 1940s were very different cultures from what we live in today. The US was basically harboring a "that's europe's problem" regarding Germany's aggression. We bordered on isolationism, minding our own business UNTIL Japan made it "our business" when it attacked Pearl Harbor. Were millions of American's acting out of a "rush to judgement, fear and paranoia" when they quickly enlisted into military service following that attack? Hmmm......but, hey, I am certain that somewhere in your mind you, River, are able to "create" your own "facts" and spin your own realities. Gee, would the USA today be German-speaking or Japanese-speaking? Certainly had the Axis powers accomplished their plans, eventually they would have gone to war against one another to dominate the globe. So, German or Japanese?

RyeLiz · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 2608

stillhere, you are managing singlehandedly to alienate most of the posters here by your derisive remarks and nastiness. You have so much anger, it is disheartening. Perhaps you should read their posts, read their links and take to heart that this is a free country, free for all of us to believe and think what we want. I know I cannot change your mind, nor the minds of many others here. I usually just call you out, but I am not going to do that anymore because like most uberconservatives (which you ARE - regardless of all your claims), you have drunk the koolaid and you are blinded by their animosity and hatred for the rest of us. I only hope you can find peace somewhere, it certainly isn't here, in fact, since you disagree with so many here, I cannot understand why you are still here.
_________________
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
-Voltaire

dnatree · Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 3052

As any such scenario approached the smallest of points overlooked would have shown those intending peace how to be

Wise as serpents and as gentle as doves

What was overlooked would change the equation for those that seek sanctuary through the Spirit.

Those leaning on their own understanding would have had no recourse but to push the button and have the button pushed on them.

Reemerge and inherit the earth

Matthew 21:43,44

stillhere · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 952

Yes, Rye, I am a terrible angry person because I object to River's snide nonsense. Yes, I am just a terrible awful person because I do not share most of YOUR opinions. Yes, how awful of me to turn River's words against her to show how foolish her allegations intended to be snide actually were. Sorry, SPIN is SPIN. You are just trying to make excuses for your "gang" bully mentality. Remember, I suggested you just put my posts on block........I could care less if you read my posts or not. River and you are entitled to express your own opinions, but you are NOT entitled to name-call and then claim I or anyone else is being "angry" when they or I refuse to tolerate that nonsense! Enough.

dnatree · Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 3052

All of us can say all of these things about each other as we are all not perfect in this body. But we are learning the true intentions of the heart as to why we are STILL HERE. Some of us want to find out the true intentions of our hearts. Some want to reach others with the true intentions of the heart. And we all are learning when to let go and start new. There are none that are alive that have not been lost because of what we were taught to believe. This SHOULD only make us more patient with each other. If someone offends us we can first give it to the Spirit and when that two edged sword of truth shows up and it will, it will reveal both hearts. That is what a two edged sword does when two hearts get so close as in love and war.
_________________
"Only that which cannot be taken away by death is real. Everything else is unreal, it is made of the same stuff dreams are made of." - Osho
Rumi says:
Love is best when mixed with anguish.
In our town, we won't call you a Lover if you escape the pain.

RyeLiz · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 2608

Stillhere, your response just proves my point. Your responses throughout here at Brock and River and me have been filled with animosity.
_________________
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
-Voltaire

Brock · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 6317

dnatree · Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 3052

stillhere · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 952

Yes, Rye and Brock...I am just this awful angry person. Just terrible...awful...awful...awful..........you on the other hand are beacons of love, kindness, compassion, peace, unity, thoughtfulness, understanding, nonjudgemental opinions, and radiate kindness all over the planet. gee, I so wish I could be just like you.

dnatree · Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 3052

Saying the Intention of the house helps me to clean my house.
This house is for those seeking true intention of heart
Or for those sharing theirs
This can be just about anything, so long as it is with true intention of heart

If I asked the true intention of Your heart would You tell me truly

Dnatree wrote

River · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 7071

The earth is sacred, how could anyone cross that taboo of god and take unto themselves the power to destroy the creation.

River

from Wars, Arms, Rams, Mars, James Hillman page 128-129. From the book, Facing Apocalypse

He's talking about the different imaginations of war through the lens of Mars or the nuclear imagination.

"A further difference between martial and nuclear is in their visions of transcendence. They show two elemental imaginations of fire: war and the fire of earth; apocalypse and the fire of ether or air. And two different animals; the ram of territory and head on collisions; the eagle of piercing surprise and the uplifting rapture of nuclearism.

The nuclear imagination, further, is without ancestry. Nothing to look back on and draw upon. History provides no precedents. There is a broken connection, to use Lifton's phrase, between sudden, hideous and collective extinction and deaths modeled by the ancestors. The martial imagination is steeped in memorials. Past battles and military biographies are the on going texts. We tramp the battlefields, ponder the cemeteries. There are Swiss depictions of battles, for instance, showing skeletons in the ranks; here are the ancestors fighting in our midst.

The rhetoric of Mars in war-journals, poems and recollections speaks of attachment to specific earthly places, comrades, things. The transcendent is in the conrete particular. Hemingway writes that, after WW I, "abstract words such as glory, honor, courage...were obscene beside the concrete names of villages, the numbers of roads, the names of rivers, the regiments and dates." skipping

Martial psychology turns events into images: physical, bounded, named. Hurtgen Forest, Vimy Ridge, Iwo Jima. A beach, a bridge, a railroad crossing; battle places become iconic and sacred, physical images claiming the utmost human love, worth more than my life.

Quite different is the transcendent experience of the nuclear fireball. The emotion is stupefaction at desctruction itself rather than a heightened regard for the destroyed. Nuclear devastation is not merely a deafening cannonade or fire-bombing carried to a further degree. It is different in kind; archetypally different it evokes the apocalyptic transformation of the world into fire, earth ascending in a pillar of cloud, an ephiphantic fire revealing the inmost spirit of all things, as in the Buddha's fire sermon:

All things, O priests, are on fire...the mind is on fire, ideas are on fire..mind consciousness is on fire.

Or like that passage from the Bhagavad Gita which came to Oppenheimer when he saw the atomc blast:

If the radiance of a thousand suns
Were burst at once into the sky
That would be like the splendor of the Might One.

The nuclear imagination leaves the human behind for the worst sin of all: fascination by the spirit. Superbia. The soul goes up in fire. If the ephiphany in battle unveils love of this place and that man, and values more than my life, yet bound with this world, and its life, the nuclear epiphany unveils the apocalyptic God, a God of extinction, the God-is-dead God, an ephiphany of Nihilism.

Apocalypse is not necessary to war. Let me make this very clear; apocalypse is not part of the myths of Mars. Mars asks for battle, not wipeout, not even victory, (Nike belongs to Athene, not Ares.) Patton supposedly said; "I like maing things happen. That's my share in Deity." Apocalypse is inherent, not in the Martial deity, but in the Christian deity. Fascination with transcendent Christ may be more the threat to the Christian civilization than the War God himself. Are not civilizations saved by their Gods also led to destruction by those same, their own, Gods?

..nuclearism produces "psychic numbing, stupefaction, stupidity...

River

lots of typos, trying to correct.

River · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 7071

From "We've had a hundred years of psychotherapy and the world is getting worse." James Hillman and Michael Ventura 1992

Page 104

"I used to get stopped cold in political arguments. I would be going on about something, and the other guy would say, ""All right, if you're so smart, what would you do about it? And I had no positive idea what to do, no program, nothing. It wasn't just that I was impractical; I was empty. My protests were suddenly emptied out because I had nothing positive to offer. They say that the '68 revolutions in Berkely and in Europe among the students were so easily crushed or petered out because the revolutionaries had no positive programs.

Kenosis puts the emptiness in a new light. It values the emptiness. It says "empty protest" is a via negativa, a non positivist way of entering the political areana. You take your outrage seriously, but you don't forces yourself to have answers. Trust your nose. You know whatstinks. Don't try to replace the helpless frustration you feel, the powerless victimization, by working out a rational answer. The answers will come if they come, when they come, to you, to others, but don't fill in the emptiness of the protest with positive suggestions before their time. First, protest. I don't know what should be done most of the major political dilemmas, but my gut {my soul, my heart, my skin, my eyes,} sinks, creeps, crawls, weeps, cringes, shakes. It's wrong, simply wrong, what's going on here.

That we blasted thousands of Iraqis, mercilessly, for forty days and forty nights; that we kept this visual and verbal information from the citizens who pay for the war, who are the war, and who will carry the war in their souls into the future of our country; that America's president could say there are no more protesters, turning them into his political opposition, as if they were now wiped out like Iraqis (there are no more enemies), that our overkill--"to spare lives" (the Hiroshima argument)--resulting from the religious fanaticism called "unconditional surrender" ( a tenet of Protestant rigidity and phobia of negotiating with the "enemy", going back to "Unconditional Surrender" Grant and the Civlil War) is covered over by harping on Arab Fanaticism; that this enemy was .................."

edit add, need to add more to Kenosis idea.Pag 102-103

Do you know the theological term kenosis? The idea from Greek means vain, hollow, fruitless, void, empty, in Christian theology kenosis refers to Christ's emptying himself of his divine power, of his unity with almight God, in order to enter this world as a man. If it hadn't been for this kenosis they couldn't have crucified him, and the expression of his emptiness is his cry on the cross to the almighty father, "Why has thou forsaken me?"

Kenosis seems now the only politcal way to be emptied out of certainty. Otherwise you become a fundamentlist united with an almighty ideology protected from avove by a cause. Therapy is just one more of the current ideologies keeping its believers from the panic of kenosis, the panic that comes when the whole structure of guarantees have collapsed. Therapy becomes a salvational ideology.

But I want to stay with politics for this letter. I could compare kenosis with the emptiness in Buddhist thought and the Zen exercises of emptying and the Oriental aesthetics of pottery and painting. But I'd rather connect Kenosis with Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. Kenosis is a form of action--not masochistic action, victimized, crucified, beaten with lathi sticks and billy clubs. Protest.

then he goes into "I think now there's a third way. Kenosis. Empty protest. "

So this was page 102 -103 before 104

River

stillhere · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 952

"Like too many specialists in every field, they are educated not out of ignorance but into ignorance, because they are raised to an imagined state of enlightenment - which is actually dogmatism - where they no longer experience the light of intuition and fierce brightness of common sense.They see the world through cloudy windows of theory and ideology, which obscures reality. This is why most experts in economics never see the financial disaster coming until the wave breaks over them, why most experts in statecraft and military strategy can be undone by an enemy's surprise attack." (A BIG LITTLE LIFE, Dean Koontz, pg. 81)
"This world is infinately layered and mysterious. Every day of our lives, we see far more that we can comprehend, and because of the failure to comprehend disquiets us, we lie to ourselves about what we see. We want a simple world, but we live in one that is magnificently complex." (A BIG LITTLE LIFE, Dean Koontz, pg.267)

neptunesdaughter · Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:35 am Post subject:

The decision to use the Atomic Bomb on civilians ( moms, babys, school children, old people, villagers, you know, just people going about their lives) was a political power decision just to establish the US as a superpower..too stun the world; "they really did it!!""..and redefine power over the world at the time between two countrys, the USSR and the US...nothing else.

every other reason or excuse was just a way that they used to manipulate american minds into believing it was for an good cause.." but, they were never going to stop.." .."we're doing this to save the lifes of our boys"..we're doing this to end the war!"....

yeah. to end war. take alook around. how many wars have we been involved in since? how many lives of people from other countrys have we killed and destroyed for power and resources since then? yeah. we care about peace allright.
But we did accomplish the objective didnt we?..We became a Super Power.

deerscribe · Joined: 22 Sep 2006 Posts: 3189

Nuclear explosions conducted in various parts of the globe from 1945-1998 Sad

http://www.blip.tv/file/1662914

stillhere · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 952

Well, Neptune...please explain why the Japanese leaders did not surrendr the first time when Truman gave them the first warning? And, then following the first refusal & bomb drop why didn't they surrender after the second warning? No...spin history any way YOU want to, but the responsibility lies with the WW II Japanese leadership. Had they surrendered BEFORE the bomb was dropped then there NEVER would have been a Hiroshima! So, spin on.........the world didn't tell Hitler to go ahead and terrorize all of europe, nor the Japanese to conquer all of Asia. If you were an honest person you would put the responsibility where it belongs. The USA did NOT start WW II. But, don't worry..you will get your wish pretty soon....CHINA will take over as the next "superpower" and then we will see how much "freedom" you will have to sit on a computer and bad-mouth THEM! Good luck!

Brock · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 6317

I'll answer, since you're sucking the life out of me with your precious hatred from innocent people. I'm discussing the civilians not the leaders/war-mongers.

Japan didn't surrender because adequate communication didn't exist! It wasn't 1980, ffs., nor did KNOWLEDGE about the HORRORS of the atomic bomb. Surely,
any HUMAN KNOWING WHAT THE FUCK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WOULD HAVE SURRENDERED
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, I'm calm now. The exclamation marks stretched out your post.
_________________
"It is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them."

Mark Twain

Brock · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 6317

http://www.sharonghamari.com/excerpt/AtomBomb.pdf

Interesting about prejudice onboard ships.

"Kill the Japs, Kill the Japs"
_________________
"It is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them."

Mark Twain

dnatree · Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 3052

Watching Funny People and RESPECT is written on the guys shirt.

They were given a warning and still they try to separate people. Making the true intention of the heart more obvious. We're not going to judge anyone
but if the Spirit is mutual then we will REACH YOU and the true intention of the heart will be revealed.
_________________
"Only that which cannot be taken away by death is real. Everything else is unreal, it is made of the same stuff dreams are made of." - Osho
Rumi says:
Love is best when mixed with anguish.
In our town, we won't call you a Lover if you escape the pain.

dnatree · Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 3052

I saw traveling through the dessert the only way for humans to evolve to such an abomination of desolation that the world is destroyed is by following and giving money and energy to leaders that are not first servants. As they can then create bombs using that mutual passion and when the moment is right humans are cut to the heart and will never follow a leader but only the Spirit because of the LIGHTNING THAT BEGAN IN THE EAST AND CONTINUED TO THE WEST. In that moment they saw the Spirit through the torn heart and they let go of the WAY THAT SEEMED RIGHT BUT ONLY ENDED IN DESTRUCTION. For the Son of Man Appeared in their hearts as he left, for it was in a Mushroom cloud he then appeared in their hearts.

Unless the Veil of interpretation covering Your heart is Torn from the top to the bottom You cannot see the coming of the Son of Man in Your heart.

Love through the Spirit will lead Humans evermore and the leaders and the Self Right that only lead astray will receive their JUST humiliation.

It is not the law that causes a son to love his father, nor the law that causes a man to love his wife, but it is to love the Spirit above all things that leads to the True Intentions of the heart.

Bonneville, the coming Death and Rebirth of our Earth
And In One Moment all is changed

Dog Days of Summer

Brock · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 6317

stillhere · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 952

Cluck, cluck, cluck.........pecking away.......stiring up the dust....cluck, cluck,..little banty rooster and his hens...cluck, cluck, cluck........dirt falling on your feathers that you stirred up.......dusty old barnyard...cluck, cluck.......peck, peck, peck......

Brock · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 6317

that's actually pretty damn funny, stillhere. Very Happy

_________________
"It is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them."

Mark Twain

......... · Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 4423

Brock · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 6317

stillhere · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 952

Cluck, cluck, cluck.........dirt flying....cluck, cluck......peck, peck.....molting season...shedding feathers....feathers in the dust....peck, peck, peck.....rain coming...running around, flapping wings......squawk....squawk....barnyard full of mud...nowhere to hide...exposed for all to see...peck, peck.......run, chicken little,the sky is falling......cluck, cluck.....

MiM · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject:

Why the frig is this post so wide??????????????
_________________
When does power lose power?
When does money lose value?
When does greed lose itself?
When does conflict lose direction?
When there is a greater need to survive
Tik Tok Tik Tok

MiM · Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: www

stillhere · Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Posts: 952

Good grief...post lies dormant for 3 weeks then you go back & pick, pick, pick it up again. Get over it. Your obsessive hatred is now bordering on some serious insanity. Good grief, Brock. Give it a rest! Jeez........get a new hairdo, buy some new duds, go out to lunch, read a good book. Take a deep breath. Take a nap, some vitamins, a long walk in the fresh air. Give it a rest before you need a shrink, girl. The whole world doesn't have to agree with your worldview. You think America is evil, a killer of humanity. Others think America saved millions and millions of lives by ending WW II. FYI - Japan is today an ally of the USA. FYI - Germany is today an ally of the USA.

etane · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 1998

Just throwing it out there for those who click it. I don't know of the accuracy of the article. I just read of similar subject matters in the past.

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.japan/2005-08/msg00120.html

SilverWolf · Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 676

Excuses for
Things that should never happen
Always happen to be
Logical and quite
Sensible, like packing an umbrella
For a trip to Seattle, but always
Leave one wondering if the threat
Of getting wet
Is worth the cost of carrying
One thing more
Against the possibility
Of a thing that might not happen.